“Use what you’re good at, LinkedIn, YouTube, whatever. If you’re a digital ADPIP person, you’re going to be good at one of them. Go hard, get revenue back from it, and use that to expand and build.”
Jade Warne | Small Business Growth Club
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So you want to make money while you sleep, but what does that look like in reality?
How can an everyday human go from servicing customers one-to-one to creating one-to-many automated digital passive income products?
Today we’re talking to a real live ADPIP small business coach and brand photographer, Jade Warne, about how she created her ADPIP empire, the challenges, the wins, and the lessons she has for you.
Tune in to learn:
- How Jade’s journey led her through the world of magazines, social media management and photography
- How Jade’s best idea was born out of the depths of despair
- Why Jade set up her business showing people how to use social media to make money
- Pushing through the voice that says “You’re not good enough” by finding your kernel of hope.
- Why time is her ideal customer’s greatest problem, and how she addresses it
- Why Jade’s membership is her absolute favourite ADPIP
- Jade’s top tips for sharing on socials and building your ADPIPs
- How Jade managed to sell her membership through Instagram posts and Paypal links without a sales page
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About Jade Warne
Jade Warne is a photographer, videographer and business growth coach who can elevate you like no other. Previously online editor at Marie Claire magazine and social media manager at Shoes of Prey, Jade’s focus today is elevating small business owners to icon status on screen through scroll-stopping photos, videos and growth coaching. With more than 120K followers online, she monetises her skills via her photo and video shoots, plus her online membership, InstaGrowth Club.
Fun fact: She’s interviewed Pharell & Beyonce, but has no photos to prove it, so did it really happen?
Connect with Jade Warne
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Transcript
Kate Toon:
So you want to make money while you sleep, but what does that look like in reality? How can an everyday human go from servicing customers one-to-one to creating one to many automated digital passive income products? Today we’re talking to a real live ADPIP small business coach and brand photographer, Jade Warne, about how she created her ADPIP empire, the challenges, the wins, and the lessons she has for you.
Hello. My name is Kate Toon. I’m the founder of Stay Tooned, busy business owner and digital product passive income queen. And today, I’m talking to Jade Warne. Hello, Jade Warne.
Jade Warne:
Hello.
Kate Toon:
Lovely to have you here.
Jade Warne:
Thanks for having me.
Kate Toon:
Let me tell you a little bit about Jade. If you haven’t heard of her, you probably have, she is a photographer, a videographer, and a growth coach who can elevate you like no other. Previously an online editor for Marie Claire Magazine… I didn’t know that. I’m so jealous I could spit… and social media manager of Shoes of Prey, Jade focuses today on elevating small business owners to icon status on screen through scroll-stopping photos, video and growth coaching. With more than 120,000 followers online, she monetizes her skills via her photo and video shoots, plus her online membership, InstaGrowth Club. Fun fact. She interviewed Pharrell and Beyonce, but has no photos to prove it. So did it happen? No, it didn’t happen. I don’t believe you.
Jade Warne:
No bragging rights for me. Sad. What, the world’s worst social media guru.
Kate Toon:
It’s funny, isn’t it? Because these moments that we should capture, we often forget because we’re actually, God forbid, in the moment and being present.
Jade Warne:
Yeah. And this was before the age of everyone having smartphones. This was a junket. I was sent on a junket to New York City…
Kate Toon:
Oh my goodness.
Jade Warne:
… by Shop Til You Drop magazine. And those were the glory days of magazines. And yeah, it was just an experience to see him, to be with these people. Once in a lifetime thing. So yeah, there’s lots of high moments in my career, but God, I dwell on the low moments.
Kate Toon:
Don’t we all, love?
Jade Warne:
Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Well, let’s talk about this. I had no idea that you worked for Marie Claire. That’s like my dream job. When I left university, my dream was to be a magazine editor, didn’t happen.
Jade Warne:
You would’ve been a great magazine editor. You remind me a lot of Jackie Frank because that’s who I worked under.
Kate Toon:
I have to Google her.
Jade Warne:
So yeah, you have the same Jackie Frank energy. Yeah, power, editrix, boss bitch. That’s the…
Kate Toon:
And instead, I went off and went into advertising, which in the long term has proved to be a lot more lucrative and a lot more steady than journalism.
Jade Warne:
Indeed. Indeed.
Kate Toon:
You take the pass, don’t you? But tell us a little bit about what you were doing and kind of what you’re still doing before you got into the world of ADPIP. So what were you doing before you started having any kind of passive income products?
Jade Warne:
Yeah. Well, I mean it’s visual storytelling and it flows right through from the magazines. I mean, what is Facebook other than an online magazine? What is Instagram other than Harper’s Bazaar, or Marie Claire and Vogue all at once? So that kind of thread of visual storytelling has been throughout my career. And really that comes from my mom.
So my mom is a patent designer. So for any of those big designers, she’s worked for them all, from Camilla and Marc to Basic, to Ginger & Smart to Sass and Bide. She actually is the woman in the back room converting their sketches into mathematical patterns. Much like SEO is the underpinnings of the internet, she is the underpinnings of fashion. And so I would live under her table, under her work room table in the roles of fabric. I would be down there cutting up scraps and building my Barbie creations and my Lego designs.
And for me, that influence of that visual power of… Louis Vuitton can command billions around the globe to spend how much on a canvas bag. Like this is serious magic. And that’s what you would’ve discovered in the advertising world as well. When you can compel people to take action by the sheer power of your visual mastery, that is very, very inspiring. A lot of power, a lot of… There’s all elements in there, power, magic, money. And so that is really what has fueled me from a very young age. And it fuels me today going through all the different stages of my career. So yes, lots there.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, visual branding. And I think your day-to-day job before you started the passive income elements was creating visual brands, was photography, was videography, is that right?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, no. So I worked for the magazines at Park Street and then I jumped ship and I worked for this company called Shoes of Prey. Now, Shoes of Prey was an Aussie startup. Back in the day is when they called Surry Hills, Silicon Beach. It was when the very first kind of Aussie startup scene was getting going. And Shoes of Prey attracted a lot of funding. It attracted funding from Mike Cannon-Brookes of Atlassian fame. So these were very powerful, again, and very kind of the early days of investing into local startups. And I worked for them as a social media manager in terms of, I defined that role. There was no such thing as a social media manager. We were the very first in Australia to invest in Facebook ads. We were the very first to invent the role of what was previously like an editorial or an online editor to jump across and really take this social media thing seriously.
So that came across with Marie Claire as well. We set up Marie Claire’s Twitter page. We set up Marie Claire’s Facebook page. We’re the very first people in Australia to set up these profiles for the magazines, me and my online manager at the time. And she was incredible. I was her 2IC. And we saw the power of this stuff because again, we were very nerdy, but also very aware of fashion. And these two kind of worlds collide perfectly into social media. So we knew that this was all happening as it happened and as it started. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. And I mean, I think anybody who follows you online, and if you don’t, make sure you do after this, will notice that your visual game is pretty up there. You know what I mean? It’s very cohesive, it’s professional, but approachable. It’s fun, but there’s gravitas. So you’ve done a great idea, great with that. But then you decided, like many of us do, that you wanted to kind of create some income, some income while you sleep, right? So what was your big little idea? What gap did you see in the market that you felt you could fill with, I guess your membership to begin with? What was the gap you saw?
Jade Warne:
Yeah. So the membership, like all my best ideas, was born out of the depths of despair. I do nothing because I’m inspired by the bar. They’re like, “I am only ever motivated to do things when I’m on the kitchen floor and I’m crying my eyes out.” And the membership was born in the depths of COVID at a time when my photography business had completely died, completely gone. I used to photograph events, so like large scale events, like super-spreader events essentially is what they would’ve been called in the depths of COVID. So that was off, and it was unlikely or uncertain whether that would ever be a viable business ever again.
So I was very sad to lose those clients. I became depressed after losing those clients. I lost my identity at that time. I was so wrapped up in being part of these massive big events and collaborations and networking kind of environments, and I really was just doom-scrolling on my phone. And I had no money, no website, and no email list, nothing. I just had the phone in front of me and I just looked at it and I was like, “Well, holy shit, this is all I’ve got. Why don’t I fucking just go all in on this thing and see if I can make some money out of it?” Right?
Kate Toon:
Yeah, that’s right. That’s so good. You know then, but we could use the horrible word pivot, but sometimes you have to reach up low air to go, “What else can I do?” I mean, and now obviously you’re doing the brand photography, doing the visual design, and you’re doing events and you’re doing this. So it all came back, but you had that moment where you were like, “There’s a gap.” There’s obviously… I’m not going to be rude. I hope you don’t mind me saying this is a lot of Instagram memberships. There’s a lot of people saying this is the thing, but your focus as well as just what hashtags to use is also around business and small business as well.
And the thing I love about your offering is that you show how to use social media to make money, because a lot of people just think social media is top of funnel, brand awareness, and they don’t… They’ve got massive followings, but they’re making no money at all. And I think that’s the gap for you. It’s not just about being pretty and whatever. It’s literally turning posts into profit. Yeah? Have I hit the nail on the head there?
Jade Warne:
100%. 100%. And as women, I really take this to heart in that we can never be without our various revenue streams, right? When one thing collapses, “Well hot damn, it’s lucky I’ve got three other irons in the fire. Let’s go move to that one.”
So I think that that’s something the pandemic taught us, but it’s also something that women have done as second nature. And I can add here as well, as I mentioned my mom, a very important figure in my life. I’m one of seven children, so my mom was raising me alongside my six other siblings at the time. And she always had little projects going on and this and that. And if something goes bad, well women, we already know, we have practise. There are bad things that happened in our lives, in our family history’s life where we’ve had to pivot always.
So that is always at the back of my mind, too like, “How can I help other women create a revenue stream that they can manage from their phone, from their couch while they’re breastfeeding, while they’re navigating life at the school gates with their toddlers?” And very much in the same line as your strategies that you offer as well is that it’s just a very practical and doable way to do business now. And I am shocked that more people are not talking about this, that are recognise this. Like you said, they see it as this superficial brand awareness thing. And I’m like, “Nah, this is cold hard cash and this is how the new economy is done.” And people should get on it because like I said, it can be done with one hand while you’re driving the car and-
Kate Toon:
Hopefully not while you’re driving the car.
Jade Warne:
… breastfeeding.
Kate Toon:
But I love that.
Jade Warne:
And eating a muesli or changing a nappy.
Kate Toon:
Exactly.
Jade Warne:
So women are the forerunners of technology in the world. We are the biggest innovators because we have to be. So I’m really proud to help other women do this as well.
Kate Toon:
Well, I love that. That’s kind of like the burning passion, helping women become financially self-aware and financially self-supporting and not relying on partners and have these income streams that they can do in the changing phases of their life. I think that’s a fantastic mission to have. So when you were moving into this kind of more passive income space, as you said, you had this identity as an event photographer, what were your fears around suddenly going out there and saying, “Hey, join my membership”? Did you have any fears?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, of course. I have the same fears that everyone has. I have the same fears with every single post. Every single time you say anything online, I think some people must look from the outside in and say, “Oh, it’s easy for her.” And I think our mutual friend, Emma Lovell said it best. She’s like, “Oh no. They don’t realise what it costs you.” Right? Nobody sees what it costs. It’s always a cost.
And so the cost is that you have to deal with your fears, that you have to push through that voice that says, “You are not good enough. Who’s going to listen to you? No one’s going to buy.” And you have to find that kernel, we’re talking atomic size kernel of hope, self-belief. My usual thing is a reckless, “Who cares?” You know what I mean? There’s that one thing that’ll propel you forward to take that.
And you challenge yourself with that every single time you turn on your phone camera. Because at the end of the day, there’s no guarantee that anyone’s going to look on the other side, that anyone’s going to buy or anyone’s going to purchase. But I keep going out there relentlessly. I keep going out there because I’m a woman. This is what I’ve got, this is my… I think that sometimes when you have full-time employment, if there’s this cushiness around it all, “I’ll be employed tomorrow.” I don’t know if I’m going to get another dollar tomorrow. I got to get out there today and I’ve got to prove what I’ve got. So every day, I’m in the arena. And for better or worse, that is facing my fears every single day.
Kate Toon:
I love that.
Jade Warne:
So that’s kind of my life.
Kate Toon:
And I think you would look out from the outside in and think, “She’s so confident she looks so put together. Everything’s so schmick.” I mean, I think that, and I know you. Do you know what I mean? But from the outside in, it does look like you’ve got it all worked out. So it’s really reassuring to know that you feel like that. I think a lot of people will take comfort for that. So what would your USP be? USP be? If I would say to you now, I’ve just met you at a networking party and you were going to tell me who you are, what you do, and who you do it for, and why you do it better than anybody else. What would you say to me?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And my USP, and I think this is a guiding light for anyone else, your USP has to be your ideal customer’s greatest problem, right? So when I think about my ideal customer’s greatest problem, and you’re probably my ideal customer and many people listening to this are my ideal customer, your greatest problem is time. You do not have enough time, and you have not enough capacity to get through everything you need to get to. So when it comes to what I do, I give you the absolute maximum essential information you need, but I give it to you in three minutes. We are not talking hour-long webinars. We are not talking big convoluted conversations that should have been a five-second email. I’m talking in the DMs. I’m talking video tutorials. I’m talking, “Do this and you will make money in the next 24 hours.” That’s my USP.
Kate Toon:
High impact, sure, easy to digest snippets of action that will actually get results. Love that. And your ideal customer, I mean obviously it’s anybody with a pulse and a credit card, but it’s primarily female. It’s primarily small business owners, but small business owners who are digitally savvy or who aren’t digitally savvy? Do you take people through the whole range or are you focused on beginners? Where do you think you sit in that kind of flow?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I can describe my actual hero customer to you. It’s really interesting, because as you said, it is anyone with a pulse. And also they can surprise you, right? So I would say if you were to ask me hypothetically, I’d say service professionals who are digitally savvy, but my most successful client is this incredible woman, Amy from North Canada. She is a rancher. Literally, she raises heads of cattle, and she has taken on board everything I’ve said in my membership in seven months ago she started with me. Since then, she has grown 50,000 followers. Great. But she has made $100,000 of cash in revenue from this side hustle that she set up. So she obviously sells her heads of cattle and she sells her beef. That’s her main business. She joined me to set up her own membership for other farmers to teach them how to market their beef. And through that membership, she’s made $100,000 now in seven months.
Kate Toon:
God, that’s a lovely feeling, isn’t it, so when you have seen success like that, I love that.
Jade Warne:
Yeah. You got to see her. Like the best thing of all is that, so she’s in winter now, she’s covered in snow, she’s nursing little calves rescuing them from… It’s just insane. So it is interesting to see who comes out of the woodwork and who you can help when they’re on the other side of the planet. And that’s the power of digital products, as you know, and in contrast to any kind of physical stuff that you’re doing, is that we can reach and help people on another world basically.
Kate Toon:
Love that. So let’s talk about the ADPIP tactics that you’ve used. You’ve obviously got paid digital downloads, you’ve got courses and you’ve got memberships. I guess if I asked you to pick one of your darlings now, which is your core product, which product do you feel is your main baby?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I think it’s good to have these different products and to experiment with them because I think each person will find their own sweet spot. And it’s a really good question. My absolute favourite is my membership because, and I wonder if this is the same for you, you get to know people over time. And I think time is a factor that we don’t talk about in terms of learning and growth and business success. You just can’t get around it. Business just takes time. Brand awareness takes time. People having their success takes time.
And so I love the membership because it gives us that time together to see your success. And really if you’re just going to grab little bits and bobs, there’s no… I don’t know. It’s hard for me to guarantee your success because we’re not spending that time together. Whereas a membership, we kind of check in sporadically, I see what you’re doing and I get to nurture your success and really participate in that and help guarantee it.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I mean I think it’s a flow. I think a lot of people might start with the, “Hey, digital downloads,” because they’re just testing you out. And then a lot of people do like the structured learning of a course, because that’s just how we’re… that’s our education system. But I agree with you that a membership and possibly a mastermind, we’ll talk about that towards the end, is a way to actually follow people through, see their journey, have a progression. It’s not bitty, little bitty bits here and there. It’s an actual adventure that you’re taking together. I love that. So since you do have a membership, what have been your biggest challenges with running a membership?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, just everyone’s time and connecting with them. I know that everyone is so busy, so that’s why we use innovative products. So like our membership is baked into DMs, so we’re following up people in the DMs. We’re sending information via DMs, which is I think the most powerful way to connect with people, and just attention. Attention is just at an all time low.
Kate Toon:
Do you mean like you make content and you’re not getting the engagement or people aren’t following? Like getting people to do stuff is the hard bit?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I think getting people to do stuff is the hard bit. You know exactly what they should do and they know exactly what they should do, but then it’s like the execution of it. And I think, again, going back to my greatest client ever, her superpower is that she was able to take on learning and execute it very swiftly. And so you know that the learning is rock solid, you know that the tips and the results are there, but everyone has stuff going on in their life and it is very hard to execute. That’s been a superpower all along, execution. So I… yeah.
Kate Toon:
I think as well, that if you do really care about people’s success, it’s hard to watch people turn up week after week but not actually taking the action and not implement. And you’re like, “How can I make you actually do what you say you’re going to do?” People say they want accountability, but the truth is that we are the only ones that can provide our accountability for ourself. No one’s going to make you do anything. You’re going to make you do stuff. And that can be really hard.
And I think the DM strategy is interesting. Personally, I can’t think of anything worse. I hate DMs. If anyone DMs around Instagram, I’m like, “Please email me.” That’s just me. So it’s funny that different, but you’re from an Instagram background where DM is the thing. So I love that different strategies work for different people. It’s the hardest thing for me as well, because memberships are a long-term thing. And what’s disheartening is where someone’s been in the membership for a while and because they haven’t taken action, they’re like, “Yeah, I’m going to leave because I’m not really seeing any change.” And it’s like, “You didn’t do anything. You didn’t do anything I told you to do. God.” But what can you do? People join for a reason, a season, or a lifetime, and that’s just the joy and the heartache of memberships.
Let’s talk about your marketing tactics, because obviously you’re a bit of a marketing whiz. Brand awareness, I mean, you have a huge following on Instagram and you build your brand awareness by, it seems, a combination of sort of tips, tactics. You don’t share a huge amount of your personal stuff. It’s all kind of very business-focused. What would you say is your kind of recommendation when it comes to brand awareness? What would be your tip be?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I always just think before you share anything, whether that’s a post, an email, a webpage, really be very clear, “What’s in this for my ideal customer?” A classic example is I see a lot of people, they jump on stories and they fire up their camera great, and then they’re on screen and they’ve got my attention and then they just blast me with their to-do list for the day and I’m like, “Lady, I got my own to-do list, and by the way, I don’t want to hear any of yours. You’ve just confused me, gone. Bye.”
And so I think that’s just a classic case of doing all the right things and then not thinking the most important thing, which is what is in this for someone else. And don’t forget, every little interaction that someone has with you, that’s a gateway to their purchase. So respect it and treat it as such. Every little time you can help them, they’re going to recognise that. The karma is going to be universally accounted for, and then they’ll come back for a little bit more. They’ll come back for a little bit more. And along the way, they’ll eventually end up in a sale. So I think that, yeah, making sure that you’ve got something in for the other person at the other side.
And I think conversely, I think that I have a lot to learn as well. To your point about sharing personal stuff, I definitely have a lot to learn in that space. I could definitely share a little bit more of my personal side and that’s something I’m working on and it’s something that I look to people like you and Emma Lovell, again to… I think you’re better at that than me, and I think that’s a good thing. I admire it. I watch what you do.
Kate Toon:
I have about six followers, so don’t follow me too much.
I love your ongoing love and celebration of Emma Lovell. Every time we talk, it’s like you should just wear an Emma Lovell t-shirt with her face on it, I think all the time.
Jade Warne:
Indeed.
Kate Toon:
She’s a lovely example.
Jade Warne:
Well, because I think she’s got that good… I think Emma’s got a fearlessness that I don’t have. As I mentioned, I’m sitting here dripping in my own sweat of fear. That’s literally how I roll, and in someone else’s view-
Kate Toon:
Marinating in your own juices, yeah.
Jade Warne:
… “What? She’s got not a drip of sweat on her, what’s up with this woman?” So I think that it’s a part. And you as well, and the way you joke about it, but your LinkedIn brand awareness and the way you operate on LinkedIn is just like chef’s kiss. And the way you incorporate personal things into that is very inspirational, and also very tactical as well. Let’s not – it’s strategic.
Kate Toon:
I’d love to pretend it was strategy, but honestly they’re often…. So I mean brand awareness, you’re just killing it. Amazing. If I’m following you on Instagram, what is my first step to actually give you my email address and start that more intimate relationship with you? How do you lure me in with your freebies? What’s your first freebie?
Jade Warne:
Yeah. Well, the Manychat integration, it’s just a godsend for everyone. So Manychat is free to use. It takes about literally eight minutes to set up because I have tutorials on it, and that’s how long they go for. And then within the next 10 minutes, you can be just reaping emails. So I can get like 2,000 emails a night if I have a really good product that people really want. Typically, I’ll give you an example, because this might resonate with people.
Well, most recently it would’ve been something around Taylor Swift. You could have done anything, you would’ve got a million emails. But prior to that, do you remember that Kardashian that was marrying that Travis guy or something and she held up a sign? Yeah, it was like, “Travis,” something around that on the sign. So I offered on Instagram a freebie to give you that Canva template, so then you could write your own Travis sign. And yeah, I got like 2,000 emails that night from that freebie.
So it is everything that everyone said around lead magnets, around freebies. I’m just executing it on a very slightly different space online. It’s still online. And it feels like nobody has realised this is where the freebies and the lead magnets are. They’re not on your pop-up, Karen. They’re on Instagram, come and get them. So it’s exactly the same fundamentals as always. It’s just executed on a slightly different platform.
Kate Toon:
I need to go and watch your tutorial. Fantastic. So then we move them along the nurture sequence. And I know if you’ve got a lot of freebies and bits and bobs that you kind of give them for free to build up that relationship and then they’re going to end up ultimately, I know you’ve got your courses, but let’s think about the funnel leading to the membership. They’re going to land on your sales page. When you’re putting your sales page together, what sort of things do you think about when you’re putting together that big action moment?
Jade Warne:
Oh, that was just such a huge learning for me. And I’ve got to say to you, that learning came about two weeks ago, thanks to Kate Toon’s membership group-
Kate Toon:
Thank you.
Jade Warne:
…. where I put my… It really was my first sales page because previously I have done literally all my nurturing on Instagram and then I’ve DMed them a PayPal link and I’ve gone, “Here you go.” There is no sales page.
Kate Toon:
Wow.
Jade Warne:
So yeah, so that is how my membership has been run for a very long time, and that’s how I got the revenue in to afford these larger platforms. So that was an interesting business strategy point as well. So now that I do have a larger platform and I’m running a proper landing page, it was my very first time that I’d done it. And it did incorporate all the elements that you suggested, the testimonials, the social proof, but your big question was, what is it? You just sliced through my… I literally had laboured over this sales page, it’s taken me six months to build that sales page. And you just were like, “What is it?” I’m like, my heart just cracked and then I’ve been nursing it ever since.
Kate Toon:
Sorry.
Jade Warne:
No, not again. It’s important. What is it? And that’s the challenge when you build something yourself, it’s almost, you’re so close to it. It’s like looking at your child and saying, “What is it?” It’s exactly the same thing, what it look-
Kate Toon:
You can’t see it. You can’t see it.
Jade Warne:
You can’t see it. You can’t see it.
Kate Toon:
And on the flip side, just to blow each other’s trumpet, you did a 10-minute video of my Instagram, and within like… Even just one thing you said, I haven’t got all the way through it yet because I’ve been dead busy, but you’re like, “Your photo is just shit. And it’s not what I’d expect from a proper business account.” I’m like, “What even is that photo?” And I was looking at it, I was like, “When did I change that?” And I didn’t have a consistent image and it’s so bloody obvious that I’m embarrassed. Do you know what I mean? It’s embarrassing. But you don’t know what you don’t know. And even listening to you now and talk about Manychat, I’m like, “Bloody hell.”
I also love that you kind of, I’m going to use the word bootstrap, even though I hate that word, but you managed to sell your membership through Instagram posts and PayPal links without the sales page, without the traditional funnel.
And I love that because it’s great when you’ve got all the bells and whistles, but if we all waited until we had the beautiful $5,000 sales page and the perfect email, we’d never get started on anything. And my first course was essentially 10 blog posts glued together. There was no course platform, there was no Kajabi, there was no any of that. It’s just 10 blog posts glued together and a price put on it. So you can do it down and dirty and it can work pretty well. But it’s lovely when you have a bit of an injection in cash and you can take the next step.
Jade Warne:
Oh, for sure. That’s the point. The point is that you need to prove your concept. The proof of concept costs nothing. And then once you get the money coming in, then you can invest in those platforms that you need if you want to scale, which is the next point that you are heading towards of this, making money in your sleep. You’re not going to do that if you’re not scalable, if you haven’t got the systems. But you need the money very first off. And I think they both work together really beautifully.
Kate Toon:
And then we just did an episode with Nic from Australian School Mums, and you both have done it the right way, as I would say, and that you built the audience first. You built the audience without necessarily expectation of passive income, as Nic did. She just created a community. But it meant when you were ready to launch your thing, you have an audience. And so many people build the ADPIP and then go, “Right, I’ll start telling people about it.” And it’s like, “It’s too late now. It’s going to take you months.” And you’ve got to take people on that journey with you. So from today, if you’re thinking about doing this, start talking about it online. And I think you’ve done a great job with that.
Let’s talk about retention. Once you do get a member, obviously we talked about season, reason and lifetime, what are some strategies you have around keeping people in your membership?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I think this is still a space where I am still learning. So we very much are just implementing those next step of programs, like the referral program, the affiliate program, that kind of stuff. I will say a note on retention in that it took me a little while to get used to the churn. And I think that the churn just-
Kate Toon:
Quite brutal, isn’t it? It’s obsessing.
Jade Warne:
The churn is brutal. Yeah, the churn is brutal. The churn is because you work so hard to get that one client and you love them and you give them your heart and then they leave. And it’s completely natural to have feelings about the churn. But what I love, and this is credit to my team, the team that I work with, Sarah and Allison, they were actually better able to manage the churn than me, and they educated me on the churn. And we’ve given it just the word now churn, and it’s much clearer. It’s not a rejection, it’s not leaving, it’s churn, right? It’s a churn rate, it’s a seasonal thing. Like the tide comes in and the tide goes out.
And so that being able to label it as that has made me so much more open-hearted and been able to detach a little bit my feelings from this natural thing. Because yeah, the retention is pretty intense. And like I said, we are still implementing a lot of things. One very practical tactic that I can say we’ve implemented is we implemented yearly, sorry, memberships. So that’s something that you offer, and a leaf out of your book. But we implemented that and that has helped a lot to get people in for 12 months. So the retention obviously is much better.
Kate Toon:
And the thing is as well, that’s double whammy because you want it for the retention. You also want it for the admin of the FAF of people joining for a month. But also people aren’t, I’m going to use an awful word now, forgive me, people aren’t going to see any transformation unless they give it a good 12 months. Nothing’s going to happen in the first two months, nothing at all. You might have a few little quick wins, but the journey is, as you said earlier, it’s the persistence and sticking around. So I love that.
I am still not used to the churn. And I find often it’s the people I give the most love to who leave and it genuinely does hurt. And I’ve had members in my other membership for nine years. It’s insane, that there’s people keep turning up and paying you for that long. I think that’s something I still battle with. We now have an exit survey, but I can’t read the results. I cannot. So I get Leanne to read them and make vague suggestions.
Jade Warne:
Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Because I love-
Jade Warne:
Yeah, I’ve seen both sides of them. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I love finding out.
Jade Warne:
But there’s good ideas in there.
Kate Toon:
There are.
Jade Warne:
There’s good ideas in there.
Kate Toon:
There are. But also I think the thing that, I wrote this in the book, is that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you are, people are going to leave. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with you. They’ve just got other things. Like to you, your membership is everything. To them, it’s like a minute of their day. And the thing that most happens is people don’t feel like they’re getting the most out of the content, and so they leave. And so the very thing that they could be doing is the reason they leave. It’s like when you buy a gym membership and you don’t go and so you leave the gym membership and it’s like, “No, you just go, just go. You’re going to get out what you put in.” It’s really hard. A lot of the-
Jade Warne:
I think that’s, to your point, it’s a season, right? It’s a season. And I am part of many memberships. I join them, I leave them. So you got to extend the same grace to other people who are coming and leaving yours.
Kate Toon:
Well, I think that’s it, I’m not a member of anybody’s anything. I never have been, really. So I don’t have that perspective. Like if I joined someone’s stuff, I’d feel like I had to stay there forever because I’m British and I’m very polite and I would be awful.
But the thing I find really lovely is when people do leave DMC, they actually send me massive emails explaining why, which I think is really sweet. They don’t need to, but it’s lovely.
So we were going to talk about advocacy, and I think both of us before the show were like, advocacy is a weird one. We can have affiliate programs and mechanisms set up for advocacy, but what makes someone say to their friends, “God, I love Jade Warne, and she’s so good. You should join her thing”? It’s quite intangible, isn’t it? And I think a lot of it has to do with obviously great customer service and good content, yes. But often it’s also about the cut of your jib. That was a very British phrase, but they just like you and your vibe. It’s a relationship, and that can be hard to manage as well. What do you think about advocacy?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, it’s really interesting. I mean, I think it probably links back, I think to the power of video and why video content is so marvellous. It’s not because we all love video content, it’s because it’s as close to the lifelike experience as we can get. And so I mean, you do a tonne of lives and they’re always going up and people are always checking in, because it’s basically like being in a room with you. That’s as close as we can get, and that is scalable. That’s the promise. We’ve never had this opportunity before. As opposed to like fitting five people in a room, you can have 50 people, you can have 500 people. That’s the scalability of video. So I think around that, it’d be, the question would be to your audience, people listening to this, “Well, how are you using video? How are you leveraging video? Are you practically getting out there and showing up on video, let alone hosting lives and going live on LinkedIn or going live on Facebook or…”
All of these tools are there and they’re absolutely free. If you’re not using these tools, you’re kind of not a great business person. That’s rude. But as a business person, you should be a kid in a candy shop because this is scalable way to multiply your presence. And if you are a good business person, then stuff lights you up. You’re passionate about stuff. You’ve got stuff to share. You’ve got stuff to say. You’ve got people to celebrate. You’ve got losses to commiserate over.
And being able to do this, as you said with other people, will build that audience, will build that retention. And it might not be the next customer, but they could definitely refer you to someone else or they could definitely keep you top of mind, or they’ll definitely remember your name in the room when stuff is going down. So I think that has always… Like I said, back in my mom’s room under the table, making stuff with scraps, I’m always looking around for the value around me. And if I can find free value stuff, I’m damn well going to use it and I’m going to make it work for me as best I can. And that’s really what I see with these opportunities to go live for free all around the internet.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. I mean, I think the other thing with video is it’s very hard to hide who you really are when you’re constantly on video. So people get to know you in a very intimate way. And I had someone join my membership the other day and they’d been a member of someone else’s membership, blah, blah, blah. As you said, people move around.
And I was like, “Oh, I think that person’s amazing. I love that person.” She’s like, “Oh, I didn’t like her at all. I found her to be this and this and this.” And obviously you don’t want to engage in that, but it was so interesting. She said, “Oh, that’s how she is on the outsides. But in the membership, she was very, very different. She was very different.” But she would’ve been someone else’s… I don’t know what I’m trying to say here. She showed her true self in the membership and it wasn’t to this person’s liking. And there’s nothing that person can do anything about. Other people absolutely adore her.
And this is it. Video is fabulous and powerful. It is also divisive. It’s divisive. And people are going to love you, or people are going to hate you. It’s very hard to be vanilla if you’re constantly on video. And I think that’s important because I’d rather people are very happy to be there than people who are just indifferent. It’s much-
Jade Warne:
Really Interesting point. Yeah. I never thought about it like that.
Kate Toon:
I don’t think I articulated it very well, and I didn’t mean to be mean about that other person, but what I mean is you really… As you said, it’s an intimate relationship. It feels like you’re in the room with them. And some people, once you get in that room with them, you’re like, “Oh actually, well, not my cup of tea.” And that’s okay too because you’ll be someone else’s cup of tea.
Anyway, I’m babbling and babbling. Let’s talk about money. The book is called Six Figures While You Sleep, but now you don’t have, whether you… You make you get 2,000 emails while you sleep. But at the moment, what percentage of your income is coming from ADPIPs and what percentage is coming from your photography and branding and visual and video and shoots things? So how’s the split at the moment?
Jade Warne:
Yeah, good question. And I know it, because I just did a session with my accountant and it’s 50/50. So it’s like drop dead right down the middle, which my partner laughs at me for and says, “You’re an idiot because only one side of that business is scalable and the other is not.” He’s like, “Clearly, your energy should go towards the scalable side.” And I agree with him, but-
Kate Toon:
How do you feel about that though? Do you want to get to a point where you’re 100% ADPIP or do you think you would always like to keep your hand in with the shoots and the-
Jade Warne:
I think like every small business owner, I think my business is shit and I don’t think it’s good enough and I think it needs to improve, but then give me a week away from my business. And if I was a stranger looking at it, I would be like, “Wow, this is smart and well done.” Because you’ve basically perfectly built two revenue streams.
And again, coming back to our point of pandemics or divorces or whatever… or losing a limb, you’ve got one that you can run from your desk without going anywhere, and another one where you are very physical and very present. And that has its own advantages too. So I am actually coming to a place where I’m quite proud of these two businesses. I haven’t got the game right in terms of pricing. I think that is a really good question to go here in terms of pricing. Pricing’s just such a minefield for small business owners on all fronts, and that’s my next challenge. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Would you say that your time is 50/50, or is your time more in the… Because if your time is 50/50 and your revenue is 50/50, that’s kind of good, but in a way you actually maybe want your time to be less on the passive income stuff because it’s meant to be one to many and it meant to be highly profitable. Do you see what I mean? So is your time 50/50 or it’s hard. It’s something to think about.
Jade Warne:
I would say, yeah, it’s something to think about. I would say my time is probably 50/50 and I would say my foot is on the floor for both of them. But don’t forget, I also have three young kids. So when I say 50/50, I’m actually doing the drop-offs every day. I’m actually doing the pickups every day. So for me, it’s just like 150 on everything.
Kate Toon:
I know. It’s a lot.
Jade Warne:
It’s a lot.
Kate Toon:
There’s everything going on.
Jade Warne:
I do dream that little man recently stopped wearing nappies, so I feel like life is progressing in a direction. Like the dark cloud is maybe receding.
Kate Toon:
When they’re all at school, it’s a bit life-changing.
Jade Warne:
When they’re all at school, yeah. Well, that was this year. So this year, it’s been two months he’s been at school. Oh yeah, one month. Yeah, he’s been at school. So life is changing and I can start to see it changing, but it’s not changed to the point that I could really, really invest in one or the other. It’s still survival mode, but I am proud of what I’ve built.
And most important to me, Kate, at the very, very end of the day, it is really hard to build products that people like from scratch. You know this. You’ve built so many fantastic products. But you know how hard it is, even just to get that right formula right that actually works for other people. So I’m really proud that the membership is a really good, robust, beautiful product, that the photo shoots work out really well for my attendees, and they get great assets from them. And with those two things, I just go out there and execute and deliver upon that. And I know that at some point in my life, the capacity will increase and I will be able to put my head up for air and look to scale things and do that and really build out those proper architectural systems in the backend that make everything automated and amazing. But at the minute, it is execution.
Kate Toon:
It’s not there?
Jade Warne:
Yeah.
Kate Toon:
And also, I’m always like, “Be patient and it takes a lot of time.” I’ve been doing this for a very long time now. And the thing is, I would say as well is there’s a lot of other things that you get from the brand sheets. There’s a lot that’s not necessarily ROI there, that personal connection, the fact that your brand is everywhere and everyone’s referring back to it. You’re on book covers, you’re on event posters, your brand is everywhere, but also you’re personally meeting so many entrepreneur level people and your network is splendid. And there will come a time, maybe it’s already coming, where you can call upon that. You’re creating like a gang of people who have worked with you, and that advocacy. That’s advocacy.
And so I would never advocate totally. It’s why I still run events, even though they’re horrendously unprofitable and they bring my profit down and why I did my book tour. I met 400 people on my book tour, 400 people. You can’t get that. No matter how good one to many is and how much I love online digital products, which I do, clearly, I wrote a book about it, yeah, they want the personal connection still matters. So I would never want to give it up 100% even if I could.
Anyway, that was splendid. I’m going to ask you now for your ultimate tip. If someone’s listening to this and they’re thinking, “Oh, I’d love to get into the world of ADPIP. I’d like to make six figures while I sleep using my skills and services to build high profit, low effort products.” There you go. Just practising the title. What would your one tip be for someone listening?
Jade Warne:
My one tip is use what comes naturally to you. Use what is easy for you. Don’t think that you have to do business a certain way using certain types of tools and spend a certain amount of money. And I hope that the vision of me on my kitchen floor crying into my phone can be of solace to someone who is thinking, “I don’t have money for this or that or the other.” Use what you’re good at, whether it’s LinkedIn or it’s YouTube or it’s whatever. There’s actually a plethora of different tools that you can use. And one of them, you’re going to be good at. If you’re a digital ADPIP person, one of them you’re going to be good at, go hard in that one, get revenue back from it, and then use that to expand and to build. Don’t wait.
Kate Toon:
Oh, love it. That’s going to be our quote. Iterative development has been the way I’ve done it as well. Make a little, spend a little, make a little, spend a little. Jade, you’re a legend. We will have links to Jane’s Instagram, her membership, her various bits and bobs. You’ll also see her photograph on the back of my book, so look forward to that as well. Jade, thank you for joining us today.
Jade Warne:
Thank you so much for having me.
Kate Toon:
There you go. Jade Warne has an amazing membership and lots of other bits and bobs. Her brand awareness stuff, I think is enviable. I always come away thinking, “I must be more like Jade Warne.” But anyway, thank you Jade, for coming on the show.
Thanks to you for listening. I hope you got something interesting out of that episode. And if you want to learn more, you can head to katetoon.com to buy a copy of the book and also to find out more about Jade’s bits and bobs. You can also come and join my free Facebook community, the Misfit Entrepreneurs, and join lots of other successful and hopeful ADPIPers for tips and advice. So until next time, stay sleepy.
