“To all parents who are trying to juggle these things, your children are humans unto themselves. You can’t make them one way or other. They will develop into those people. You need to look after you, and if you look after you you’re looking after them, so you are not your children.”
Russell Pearson | Crimson Fox
Buy the book
Working from home feels like a dream.
You get to work in your pyjamas, commute down the hall, and eat snacks whenever you want.
No more team meetings.
No more grabbing a limp sushi roll at some wretched food court.
No more pencil skirts.
But working from home has its own challenges.
How many times a day do you find yourself heading to the fridge for inspiration?
How do you deal with the endless interruptions?
And how do you create separation?
On today’s show, I chat with a dad of three teens about working from home, how he stays productive, his business why, how he deals with parent guilt and so much more.
It’s a great honest look at what it really takes to be a business-owning parent.
Tune in to learn:
- Russell’s family dynamic
- How Russell approaches parenting
- How Russell started his business and adapted to working from home
- Russell’s approach to managing parent guilt.
- Why treating yourself as your best client is key to an organised diary
- How to have open, healthy communication with your kids
- Why it’s important to balance both the physical and the mental, and the impact it has on your business
Listen to the podcast
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About Russell Pearson
They call him “The Business Blacksmith”. Strategist, Artist, and Father of three energetic children, Russell Pearson, has over 25 years of successful advisory in the world of business, marketing, and sales.
Director of the award-winning, Crimson Fox Creative Studios. Russell is also the founder of the FORGE Business Program, Host of Your Consulting Business Podcast, and the Past National President of Professional Speakers Australia.
Fun fact: Russell is obsessed with Margins.
Connect with Russell Pearson
Buy the book
Transcript
Kate Toon:
Working from home feels like the dream.
You get to work in your pyjamas, commute down the hall, and eat snacks whenever you want.
No more team meetings.
No more grabbing a limp sushi roll at some wretched food court.
No more pencil skirts.
But working from home has it’s own challenges.
How many times a day do you find yourself heading to the fridge for inspiration?
How do you deal with the endless interruptions.
And how do you create separation?
On todays show I chat to a dad of three teens about working from home, how he stays productive, his business why, how he deals with parent guilt and so much more.
It’s a great honest look at what it really takes to be a business owning parent.
Hello, my name is Kate Toon. I’m the founder of Stay Tooned, a busy business owner and okayish parents and today I’m talking with Russell Pearson. Hello, Russell.
Kate Toon:
Hello. Hello. So ironically, I’ve had to move this meeting with Russell back and forth. I thought it was midday. It was at one I was late for the zoom. And why is that? It’s because it’s school holidays are close to the end of school holidays when we’re recording this. And I you know, most of us I’m kind of crawling to the finish line. How about you Russell?
Russell Pearson:
It’s an interesting one. Because we have a what would you call it? It’s not broken family. But we have split.
Kate Toon:
Yes, same as us.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, right. And so my, the holidays, I think I was saying to you before the, with the call, I’m going to have to plan better for the Christmas period because it was exactly that right. It’s, you get into this groove of this is how it’s gonna go and then it doesn’t.
Kate Toon:
And that’s huge, right? Added to that. My son got a new computer and has been gaming relentlessly. And I thought we had unlimited internet, but we don’t because he managed to use it all up and so we went on to that slow speed. So literally, you know, what’s the line? If you’re gonna marry someone see how they react when you have slow internet? I do not react well, don’t marry me. Terrible
Russell Pearson:
I didn’t know that was a thing, but that’s the new one. Yeah, I like it.
Kate Toon:
I had my incident rationed. But then we’re gonna dig into this a bit more throughout the episode, but let me just introduce you to everybody. Russell is the business blacksmith strategic. I always say this wrong strategist, artists and father of three energetic children. Russel Pearson has over 25 years of successful advisory in the world of business marketing and sales, director of the award-winning Crimson Fox Creative Studios. Russell is also the founder of Forge business program hosts of your own consulting business podcast and the past National President of the professional speakers Australia. I didn’t know that one. He’s also obsessed with margins. Are we talking profit margins?
Russell Pearson:
No, we’re talking about my I was a crane. Can’t speak either. Gotta do well today. Trained graphic designer. Oh, and then I ended up becoming a teacher on that subject. And I am obsessed with certain guidelines on where margin should be and shouldn’t be.
Kate Toon:
Oh, I bet you’re fascinating at parties.
Russell Pearson:
The words like the margin on the outside needs to be larger than the margin on the inside. Anyway, pet peeves.
Kate Toon:
These funny little quirks we have I am obsessed with spacing between the lines when you’re reading copy, like literally cannot read copy unless it’s 1.5 spacing. So me and you, we’re gonna be in the corner talking about our margins and bases everything but don’t talk to those two. Don’t go near them. He talks about margins.
Russell Pearson:
Exactly on that thing. It’s like if there’s if it’s not bigger than 1.5 around the text, it’s wrong.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, it irks me, it really irks me. So I need to kind of get over myself. But then let’s dig into the episode today. You mentioned at the start of the episode, you have three humans, you made three humans well done. And that now you are split from your partner, which I didn’t know, me too as well. So you know, yay for the splitters. I’m joking. It’s not the best thing in the world. But what is your –
Russell Pearson:
Split for 4 years and divorced for one now.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, there you go. So I’m four years separated, but not yet divorced, because I just haven’t got around to it. It’s the paperwork man, can’t get around it. But we’re very amicable. And we actually still live together which horrifies most people, we do something called nesting. It’s a term right. So our home is the nest, every other weekend, one of us leaves the nest to go and spend time with our partner sounds very polyamorous. It’s not. We keep the home kind of like a safe space, which is interesting to a lot of people because obviously, it requires a lot of good communication and good relationship with your ex, which a lot of people don’t have.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, and that’s one of the things that I think we’ve done well, even though there’s obviously plenty of trials and tribulations with it, that we can talk.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, and that’s important, right to, to kind of keep that going for the for the sake of your sanity, and also for the sake of your kids. But what we’re not here to talk about relationships, good grief, I would be offering no advice on that score. You know, the idea of 6fish, as I call it, six figures in school hours, is about trying to create some kind of balance or exchange between business and parenting, appreciating that there’s no such thing as perfect, perfect balance for that. Sometimes you’ll be a good parent, and sometimes you’ll be good at business. Sometimes they may cross over briefly, but tell us about your Daddom done. You know, you’ve got three kids, how old are they? What flavor? All that kind of stuff.
Russell Pearson:
Okay, so we’ve got the three, the oldest has just turned 16. Which means she’s just, she just got hired by McDonald’s. It was interesting. The youngest is nine. And the middle one is 13. About to become 14. Now, I had three girls. I now have two girls and a boy.
Kate Toon:
Okay.
Russell Pearson:
That’s interesting in itself, right?
Kate Toon:
Yeah, totally. So the middle child is, hey, him. And the, you know, is still in sort of fluid thing where I just need to check in every now and then and just check that that’s still the case?
Kate Toon:
Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s his own challenge as well, isn’t it? So? Gosh, so quite a broad range of age ages. For me, I’ve only got one. And he’s 13. Going On 19, I think is the phrase at the moment. So you know, thinking about your Daddom, And obviously, I think your your style changes over the years, do you think you have a kind of a broad idea of how you describe your parenting style, we don’t need to give it a label, like helicopter-
Russell Pearson:
My parenting style. And it’ll be interesting to see who’s listening to this podcast? My parenting style is… not my dad.
Kate Toon;
Oh, my God, you’re like, it’s so funny. I had John Cachia on the podcast a couple weeks ago, he said exactly the same thing. A lot of us are trying not to be our dad.
Russell Pearson:
And so it’s, it’s principles built off a lot of that. And then, obviously, you know, they talk about business being the best personal development course you can ever take. I think most business owners have been in business for, let’s say, more than 10 years, have been through some of that development work or have had to do it. And so that that lens into that style to about like, what is good communication? Understanding, I can’t change anybody. And so I can only affect myself in that space, I think comes into it, especially more these days.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, absolutely. I was talking to a parenting coach Jody Thornton. And she was talking about how, you know, accepting how little control we actually have is one of the learnings we get as parents is, you know, we try especially with the first child and obviously, I only have one, there’s this desire to protect them from the world and kind of keep them safe. And I must admit, I’ve been quite a helicopter parent at times. And then as they get older, you realize there’s so many other influences coming in. They obviously a lot of the time are who they are before you even got involved.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, I mean, to give you a my own perspective, the first, our first child, we made sure she didn’t have a shoe in her mouth, we made sure she wasn’t licking the floor, we made sure that she wasn’t doing all these different things. And the second one comes along and you try to do it and you care less. And the third one comes along, you put the shoe in the mouth just to stop the screaming. So, I certainly discovered that over time, there were certain things I was so concerned at the start that I realized I didn’t need to concern myself with. And then the other thing, which was fascinating, which was, how different they were from day dot. So. My first child was like, you know, would wake up in the morning and sing to the birds and was lovely and more thoughtful was the, you know, she’s a teenager now. So things are different, but thoughtful. And then the second one comes along, and you know, she would shrink into the shadows, you know, it was like, completely polar opposite. And then the third one’s like, I can’t see who you are, like, Who are you more like your mommy and more than I don’t think you’ll like it. It’s like incredible. So the they are so different from a nature point of view and but nurture on the principle side of things, I think definitely gets instilled and you can see that through all three of them.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. And I think the thing is, the parent you would be when you had your first one compared to the parent, you are when you have your last one, I mean, there’s a you know, there’s a big gap or seven year gap, you as a human have emotionally developed maybe financially better off, you know, the concerns and worries that you have, you know, it’s an earlier stage with your partner, you know, there’s so many different factors. So even two kids who are born into the exact same family aren’t born into the same family, because you’re different, you know, so it’s, it’s so it’s worth thinking about but not thinking about too much. So, you know, from the from the family sides, you know, a lot of diversity going on there in terms of your business. Tell us a little bit more about your business. What does that look like? Is it a home business? Do you have employees? You know, how does that set up?
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, so when the oldest was born, I had just so I just started my business before she was born. With the idea that, you know, I would be able to actually earn more income, because now I had a family on the way and all the rest of it. And so for the first year, I was at home and running and doing the startup piece in that first year. And it was when she started knocking on the door during phone calls that I was like, I can’t do this, and I had to actually go and get an office. And so then, so that first year, I were home, working from home, then for the next, I think, 10 years, maybe, maybe longer. I was in an office. And so I would go away, and I would come back, and I would go away and come back. And there’s all sorts of stories I can tell around that. But now I’m, this is before COVID, I sold the production side of my business. So it was a marketing business. And we we were building the advisory side over the last 15 years, and it eclipsed the production side and was so much more profitable, they ended up selling the the production slice of it. And once that happened, there was no need for the office, you know, so I moved back in back to a home based business. And it I was just better at it the second time around, you know, there’s more discipline about where’s the spaces and the things that you need, when there’s a family, there are other people working there. Now I live with my partner in our own places. And so I made sure that we are, we made sure that we have two separate studios. And so with doors in between the double shut and things like that, so we can both be doing podcasts at the same time, she works in a similar sort of space. And that then helps with having the kids during holidays and all the other things that go with it. So there’s almost like a recording light up there. But it’s just a door shut.
Kate Toon:
There’s so many questions, I want to dig into what you just said. So I want to get back to the beginning of what you said. And you said that when you started your business, one of the whys was you felt you could make more income owning your own business and you could having a job which you know, is ironic, really, because that’s often not the case. So do you think that you were very much driven by the financials at the beginning? Or was it also the flexibility you were looking for? Like you wanted to be able to work whatever hours and be around your kids? What was your big why?
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, I had a production manager at the time who scared me to death. And so not working with her was great. Big things, right? Yes. The other was, there was two other reasons. One was I think I was earning 60k at the time. And so I did end up making more in the business, which was good. But I was I was a little scared to death that I wouldn’t earn much more than the earning capacity, which wasn’t much more because I kept pushing my boss at the time, can we do more? We were doing videography, and websites and editing and all these different things. And I’m like, where else can I move to? And he’s like, Well, I don’t I don’t think there’s a space here. And I’m like, okay, so I started working on the side. And this is when podcasts were starting up, starting to hear people like Brian Tracy on recordings because I didn’t have a cassette tape player. And, and, and he was saying you can do whatever you want, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so I start working on the side. And then I think I would have been working 16 hours on top of my job to get that ball rolling. And I had Melway, who in Victoria, Australia, there’s a company called Melway that makes maps and they’re an institution and they’d somehow ended up getting me as they were my client. And they said to me, you know, if you go out on your own, we’ve got so much more work for you. And so I took the plunge I had $7,000 saved up and I spent it all on computers and software and stuff that I needed at the time. Within two months of me going out on my own. Melway said I should we don’t need you anymore. I still worked for them with them, sorry, for 12 years, but for this tiny little piece that I would do every single year and so all that that promise of things to come, didn’t happen. But I was still making more money than what I was as an employee. And then then the flexibility showed up. So then I was like, I can go to the movies and I’m sorry, like I’m like in the movies at 10am. We popcorn and just gone How could this be in business? And then I’d go to like the Friday auctions and I bought a piano and all these other things. This is fantastic. And at the end of the first year I was $30,000 in debt from tax, and realised I can run a business, right?
Kate Toon:
Yeah, yeah. So gosh, again, you know, let’s dig into there, you know, having a bit of savings is great, but you can burn through it so quickly. And then, you know, all the best laid plans, I was literally talking to someone today about whether you need a business plan. I’m like, Yeah, business plans are great for about a week, and then something changes, and you have to rewrite them. So you know, dealing with that kind of up and down. And then also that kind of idea that you can be free and easy and flexible. And it to be honest, I mean, you can if you don’t want to earn much money, but to be honest, a lot of it is bum in seat, head down, grind. And I think a lot of people don’t want to admit that. I mean, I started my business because I wanted the flexibility to be with my son, you know, and then over time, so it wasn’t financial to begin with, it was definitely flexibility. But then over time was like, wow, I am making a decent amount of money here and in much less time, but also on my own terms, and it became less about time or money and became about autonomy that I could do what I wanted. And even if I did go to the cinema at 10 o’clock and even if I was $30,000 in debt, which I got into to I got to 50 though, so I beat you.
Russell Pearson:
I wasn’t earning enough.
Kate Toon:
At least it was my I don’t know why. I don’t know why. But yeah, it was my, I had the choice to make the mistakes that I wanted to make, which is part of it, you know? So I wanted to ask you something else, you mentioned the transition from funnily enough, I’m, I’m in the midst of the chapter about, you know, creating your own space as a business owner and working from home and the pros and cons and then working outside of the home. So, you know, kids knocking on the door, we all like to think we’d be the parent that says oh come in darling, come in, and let’s have a little cuddle. And how we manage those interruptions is super important. And I think you do get better at it. But what were the benefits for you of moving out of the home and into into an office? What did you see were the positives for you?
Russell Pearson:
The positives were at the start focus like I would, I would step out of the office. You know, spend time with people go to that the fridge is incredible. The fridge is a problem. Because it’s so close to a home office. Right? I’ve get better now I got better with well have I’m heavier now that I was then right. So the but things like the fridge? I don’t know you can have in an office.
Kate Toon:
What do you mean? Do you mean that you go there to seek inspiration, and distraction?
Russell Pearson:
I would just walk out of the office and I would naturally transition to where the kitchen was It was literally outside of the office door going in and I’d open up the fridge and I would stare inside it. And just go…
Kate Toon:
What is what do we expect to see in there like we’re gonna open it up and it’s gonna go ‘ahhh’.
Russell Pearson:
It’s just magic that there’s lights on inside. But the that not having that distraction meant that well, he’s the flip side run. Not having that distraction meant I was able to focus on more work now focusing on work creates a habit of work. This is what I’ve discovered, and then become a bit of a workaholic. And this may I almost seem like I made it up on a promise you I did not. I’m about to leave for work at 7:30 in the morning. My oldest was I think three or four at the time. And and she’s like, Daddy, you have to go to work? I’m like, yeah, we’ve got to make some money. You gotta keep the you know, the house payments and things like that. And she’s going. Oh, hang on a second. She goes, close your eyes. And so I did because I was playing along and she runs off and I hear the little footsteps. Little footsteps come back, put out your hand daddy. And I closed my eyes still,
Kate Toon:
Oh this is gonna hurt, isn’t it?
Russell Pearson:
Yeah. And she puts something in my hand and I open it up. And she goes now you don’t need to go to work. Daddy. It’s a 20 cent piece.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. Oh, yeah, we’ve all had that moment. You know, it’s so hard, isn’t it? I want to come on and talk to you about communication because it’s kind of your superpower. But before before we do you know so you mentioned that you you went out of home you went into the into the office environment and I think kind of that separation can be super important. You get the commute which is a bit of a third space
Russell Pearson:
Yeah it was good like that.
Kate Toon:
For a bit of money. You get to wear outfits, which is great for the soul. I mean, it sounds silly but you know people underestimate that are working at home in your pajamas week in week out. It’s not good for the soul. Many of people will have experienced that during COVID. But as a freelancer, years and years of that was not good enough.
Russell Pearson:
I’ve kept that now. Now like moving from the office back to home, I get dressed for the office now
Kate Toon:
I do too. I think it’s super important. I mean, maybe I’ll only get dressed to from the to the waist and completely naked from the waist down. Do you know what I mean? I wear might wear pajama bottoms but no though um Honestly these days I do I even spend a little bit you know, as you do put a bit of makeup on.
Russell Pearson:
I use gloss.
Kate Toon:
It’s important, isn’t it.
Russell Pearson:
The tracksuit pants are no, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if I’m in tracksuit pants I’m off. And then if if I mean, you know, it could be jeans right through to whatever’s but like denim on.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, it’s so important. And this is what I’m really kind of discovering in writing my own book that it’s not about balance, for me it really is about being on or off. And there being quite a clear distinction between that. So instead of trying to work but being half distracted, or instead of trying to be a parent being half distracted by work, that you have clear boundaries, and often the clothing is a good boundary. The physical space is a boundary the door is a boundary, the on the off the podcasting light, which I have to you know, it’s all just about creating tiny little boundaries that add up to a sense of, okay, now I’m working in Okay, now I’m parenting, but then you’ve come back to the home office again, and what would you say is some of the essentials for you, for your home office, you’ve mentioned the door, the separate space with you and your partner, which I think is super important. I used to share a space with my ex-partner, probably one of the reasons why he’s my ex. It’s funny how annoying people’s breathing can become.
Russell Pearson:
And chewing, and a hundred other things, yes.
Kate Toon:
What else is I mean, you’ve got a beaut-, I can see you can’t see this because you’re listening listeners. But you have a beautiful office space behind you’ve got books you’ve got, it looks really simple.
Russell Pearson:
This is not the office space. This is the No it’s real. But this is studio space. So references and things like that here. This is the studio, I have a curtain right there on the other side of the studio. And there’s a divider to a place that I can actually use as the office. And so what’s interesting is when the when the kids are here, that’s the office space. And when the kids are not here, their desk is my office space. Right? Right. Okay, so I can, what I have found is that obviously when the kids are here, I need to be the responsible adult and not just take off, right? So they’ll be here in this in that space. That’s what that’s for. But when they’re not here, I’m like, alright, what space do I need right now? And that actually is big difference. So like, for instance, I’ll go right I need a desk, I need to do this consistent work, boom, I’m on a desk and I’ve got a few in the house. What so I can move around like that? Or do I need to be out of here? Yeah, and then so it’s dawned on me to thinking alright, there’s a drive I can do is there is there I’ve actually gone and got even though I don’t need it memberships to two separate working spaces –
Kate Toon:
Co working spaces.
Russell Pearson:
Co working spaces for two for two reasons. One is if there’s any utility issues here, like internet goes out, things like that. The other one is to get out of here to get around other people which I’ve discovered I don’t need too much of I think I definitely am an introvert. But from time to time if I need if I need to shift how I’m thinking I’ll do that.
Kate Toon:
I love that you have just kind of nodding and nodding and nodding because I you know, I kind of think I’m introverted, or I’m an ambivert, you know, I I do enjoy other people I get energy from other people but only for short periods of time. Like I get worn out by people quite quickly, I too visit co working spaces and it really is for that sense of community. But as you said sometimes it’s really just for change of scene, you know, day in day out being in a little co working space on you’re in a little office at home on your own. We only got the dog, you know it and then and then I moved straight from that into being a mum because I’m separated so you know with my son or I’m not it’s not it’s just two dimensional, you know, and having that third space to go to whether you know you can talk about mental third space but physically is really important and I also love what you said there about do I need to think great I’m gonna go for a drive or I’m gonna go for a walk so space doesn’t just mean your physical desk it can mean other places you know sometimes I’ll even go and work in a cafe knowing full well I will get nothing done. But it just feels nice to sit there with my laptop, have a coffee, check some emails it feels like what I thought having a business would be like before I had one.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah you’re 100% right and for there was a period of time that I would go to coffee shops with that sense in mind or go the first few times you go there you guys and this lovely realize that there is no focused flow time at all.
Kate Toon:
No, but you get to wear a beret a, you know, obviously I always wear a beret and look like a freelance copywriters. Exactly. All right, so sorry. I’m getting a creaky voice too. So we’ve talked a lot about the space and about that kind of transition. I guess. Couple of kind of distinct questions. How do you stay productive? If you could give me one productivity tip? As a busy parent and a busy business owner? What would it be?
Russell Pearson:
Well, the word diary. Yeah. But it’s not just having a diary. It’s having a principle around the diary that if you’ve made appointments with yourself, you’ve made an appointment with the most important person in the business. If your best client had an appointment at 10 o’clock, Would you give it to another client? You wouldn’t. And so you are your best client, don’t go giving your time with yourself to other things outside of the business. Now, you’re a parent which means that people fall down and break things, themselves, and all sorts of stuff can happen. So those crisis moments will happen. But outside of those crisis moments, understanding that that diary is your commitment with yourself and your business, I think has been one of the big ones for me to get stuff done.
Kate Toon
Gosh, I love that. I think a lot of people, you know, use diaries use Google Calendar, put things in, but they’re not. They don’t mean it, you’ve got to mean it. Like for me, nothing goes in the diary, unless I absolutely mean it. And I’m very, I had to move this podcast. In fact, I moved to and from back to the same spot. So I will, I would, I will go a long way before I will move an appointment or miss an appointment with anybody else. And with myself like that is super important to me. Because for me, it’s super important to be a woman of my word. Like if I say I’m going to do something, I do it, which means I’m very cautious about saying I’m going to do something, you know, I really think it through before I say yes, you know, it’s important to me.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah. And so the first time that actually so I was earning $80,000 A year and I’m like, oh, what should I do next. And I’m like, I get some advice from the small business mentoring service. And they helped me out it was good. But then I went and got a coach, right. And I spent like $25,000, right. And so it’s a lot of money. But that guy helped me triple my business in the first year. And he also taught me the piece around having a default diary and what that actually meant. So even if it was just as small as having two hours, somewhere in the week, and it can be after they’re in bed, because that’s how I worked it out. It was like after the kids had gone to bed. So it was like 8 till 10 on a Monday night that you would work on the business that two hours opened my opportunities right up. So that was very key. And I think and now because of the work that I do, I understand how much identity comes into things right? How big a deal it is. When your identity first is mother or father or whatever it might be to go, Well, this is my priority, or I am this thing because of you know what these other people represent to me. Without them, I don’t know who I would be. So a lot of identity comes into a big, it’s a big part of defining where you should put your time. And I think understanding that you you do have certain hats, and you do have certain roles. And probably even just understanding how they play a hierarchy in your own life and whether it’s a healthy hierarchy to take because there’s so many people that actually take the carer stance, and take that first. And I know it’s a silly gimmick with the oxygen mask, but it is so true.
Kate Toon:
Oh I’ve used the oxygen mask analogy in my book, don’t worry, because it makes such sense. And I think, taken up on that point about identity. I think that’s where a lot of guilt comes in. Because you do feel, you know, my parenting should come first above all else. That’s what we’re told by society that’s kind of innate in us as soon as you have a kid, you know, they’re the top priority. But that can lead us to kind of put ourselves as a low priority or whenever we’re not parenting that we are in some way, letting our kids down. And a really important part for me about the mindset shift of having a business and being a parent is I am allowed to be both I am allowed to have an identity as a business owner I’m allowed to feel fulfilled. My business gives me a lot of joy. I have no shame in that. And that makes me a better human all round which makes me a better parent. How do you handle parent guilt, it’s often called mum guilt. But I know a lot of dads suffer from dad guilt as well.
Russell Pearson:
Yeah, well the 20 cent piece got me on that side. And then since the separation and what have you understand that and this may be situational. I’m not losing my children. I haven’t lost their main taken away. What makes me a good dad are my ability to communicate with them and to keep an open channel with them and to do those things. And so I go okay, well, then if that’s the case, my priority. And my what is important to me is to be able to create those opportunities to have conversation, so call them. If not every night, every, every second day, we’re actually in contact and having good quality conversations, I’m having better conversations now than I ever did with them, and then it’s what else is important, or I will for a lot of people that will be the protector, especially for the Father. So what is protection? Because helicopter parenting does not protect them in their life. It’s like, alright, well, educating them becomes a protection piece. And so understanding what is the value behind the decisions you’re making? I think, super key.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, totally. I mean, a big important thing for me has been to reject the notion of quality time, that time is not quality, unless you’re doing something fabulous, you’re at the zoo or whatever. And appreciating the quality time can be going to Coles, can be driving them to karate and having that my son has best conversations with me when we’re driving. And I think it’s because of a lack of eye contact, and he can just chat away, whereas if I’m kind of looking at him saying, let’s have a meaningful conversation, you know, it’s like, Oh, my God, the pressure is on.
Russell Pearson:
There in itself. Right? So, so three children, every single one of them is different. Yeah, I actually need to put hands on one of them as far as like to connect. And so you know, and I always thought like, oh, you know, society says, you know, don’t be that dad, or whatever. But I put my arm around one of my children, and they are connected to me, that they’re with me. Whereas the other one very audio, she’s the same, she’ll sit in the front seat of the car, and we’ll drive on, the best conversations best, best thing ever. So every child will be different. And it does come back to like, what are the value? What are your values? And then what does that look like in practice?
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think I’ve got a whole chunk of the book, which talks about, you know, what is a ‘good parent’, and of course, I’m doing air quote, fingers. And that kind of establishing what, as you said, what values are important to you, but then digging into them, like you, I love what you just said there about the protector, very common kind of male role. But also, you know, get these mums that are like tiger moms and at lioness mums want to protect their cubs. But what does protection mean, and I love your piece there around kind of giving kids the confidence to make good choices, and all of that, which is all we want. But you know, you talked there about communication and communication, I feel is huge. And obviously, we all want to try and keep lines of communication open with our kids and make them feel they can come and talk to us pretty much about everything, there’s some things my son wants to talk to me about that I’m like, I don’t want to know about that. Like, I do not need to hear about Minecraft one more time or Call of Duty. Obviously, it’s evolved over the years. But, you know, I guess one of the big challenges, you know, people have is overcome, you know, in business, we have the challenge of overcoming our clients objections, or being a salesperson without being silly. And those can similarly be applied. Maybe I’m pushing this a little bit to your children and to you know, they have objections like Dad, please don’t go to work. Here’s the 20 cents, or Dad Why are you always on your phone? You know, Dad, why do you work so much? How have you over the years managed those kinds of conversations with your kids?
Russell Pearson:
Well, at the start, I was bad at it.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, me too.
Russell Pearson:
And I’m just gonna be completely open and honest on this, the not having the time with them has actually made me a far better parent.
Kate Toon:
What do you mean by that?
Russell Pearson:
So when I when I had them the whole time, I didn’t value it. Now I do so the evolves to go back in time, I would make time which you can’t do I would take time. And I would take time with them together I’ll take time with them individually. And I think also understanding that they’re their own little humans and what’s important to them and so if you want to have a relationship with them, you got to meet them halfway. Respects being the toughest one, because it’s such a big deal for me. And moving into the teenage years, it’s like how to communicate what is respect and what is respectful and, and how we can have a respectful, we can have respectful communication about everything. And I don’t know that I’ve got the answers, but I think I’ve got it right because they they tell me things that you wouldn’t expect children to tell especially their dad. And so yeah, every early teenage thing that they experienced, they told me about it, and then they weren’t asking for advice. They’ll just letting me know.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, what do you mean? empires respect that they need to respect you as their dad. Or that you need to respect them as their own entity?
Russell Pearson:
Then that’s the hardest bit, right? Is that? You? As a parent, you’re like, alright, well you gotta respect I’m doing these things with and for you and I love you. And there’s there’s sometimes this feeling of unreciprocated love.
Kate Toon:
Oh, yeah.
Russell Pearson:
And so it gets into the identity stuff to the sometimes there’ll be there’ll be moments when they’re, they’re testing. What does respect mean? Who am I as a human and all those different things and think the ability to have an open conversation about these are my values, this is what I feel is important when it comes to respect. Now you don’t have to adopt them. But I’d be interested for you to tell me what does it mean for you? So that you can actually start speaking a similar language like you started the year? would you love to say it’s lexicon? Right? You creating a lexicon between the individual? And they are there individuals? So it’s understanding that they’re not going to sing the same tune.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think that’s really important. I think also, you know, we’ve got older children, we’ve got teenagers, and it massively changes, you know, when you’re sitting down with a three year old, and they’re like, why are you working all the time, you have to explain that everyone has jobs. And that’s how we have homes, and we have food. And it’s a much more basic conversation, I think we underestimate how much kids can take on board. They can’t necessarily articulate it themselves, but they can listen, and they can take that on. With teenagers, I think one of the hardest things is making them actually realize that you are a person, not just a parent, and for me a big part of that has been being quite vulnerable. And, and not hiding the stresses of my business and trying to pretend that everything’s good. But sometimes I’ll go and ask, my son is, you know, I’ve always talked to him quite like a grown up. And that’s had its pros and cons. But, you know, going in and saying, you know, I’m sorry I’m a bit grumpy tonight, this situation happened at work, and it’s making me feel a bit stressed. So if I’m coming across a bit short, that’s why, and being really open about that.
Russell Pearson:
I agree. Yeah, I agree on the treaty and like, adults to a degree, then it’s, um, there’s a lot of people saying one thing and another on that whole subject. But every time I’ve actually spoken to them, like I was speaking to a person who would have a critical thinking on this, I’m not asking him to make decisions. I’m just explaining to them what’s going on. With the result has been better than trying to hide something, or keep them back. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
I mean, I think it’s, it’s all about, again, boundaries, you know, it’s not like I tell him all my sad stories, and I didn’t go into amazing detail.
Russell Pearson:
But it’s it was that leadership becomes such a key. It’s like, what is it to be a leader in that space? And I say, if you’re leading your children at this pace, and lead, right, but if you’re leading your children, what is it to be a leader? Well, number one, it’s taking ownership for stuff. And so whether that’s a case of if you say you’re gonna do something, then do it, otherwise, you’re not the leader. And so if you’re wanting to be the leader, then it’s a case of just the behaviors, that they see everything, but everybody does.
Kate Toon:
And they see right through you. I mean, I remember, you know, there’s a certain point and I think, for me, it was in teenage years where I really saw my parents for who they really were the kind of the mask dropped, obviously, they are of the 70s 80s generation, and there was a bit more of the we’re parents do, as we say, because we’re your parents, and we’re offering you know, other rationale, you know, and then you get to a point where you’re like, Oh, wow, you are vulnerable, and you don’t know everything, and you’re struggling too and okay, and not, not necessarily whether I responded to that, as a teenager probably took me until I have my own children to truly appreciate that. But I feel like our generation is much possibly closer to our children were vulnerable with our children. You know, we’re willing to own our mistakes, apologize. Things that, you know, weren’t maybe there for our parents 20 years ago, it’s a lot of a different thing.
Russell Pearson:
I remember there was old advice that was like, like, again, leadership position, never apologize. Advice. And it’s, it’s nonsense. And so it probably took me well into my 20s. And year until I had children of my own to see my own parents for who they are. And I just rebelled against the ‘you should do things this way’.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think another one is, you know, it’s like, never apologize. But it’s also this ridiculous. You know, rule that we’re supposed to be consistent. We’re supposed to be consistent with our message. And we’re supposed to be consistent with our partner. So you’d present a united front, which again, is a lovely idea. But I can barely agree with my partner on like music, Netflix choices, food, how on earth we could have come from the same values. We both want our child to be loved. We want him to communicate, but the way that we get that the way that we parent is very different. And again, I think we forget that kids can be quite diplomatic, they can deal with two different parenting styles, you know, they can manage that, they have to manage that. Because that’s the real world, they’re not going to go out and find uniformity in the real world. So then that’s, it’s a foolish idea that we can achieve that at home. You know, sometimes I will prep my ex-partner. And so like I said, this, this to my son would be great if you could say it, too. And he’s like, Yeah, okay. But oftentimes, we are giving slightly different messages. And he, he can gather that, what do you think on that one?
Russell Pearson:
Well, I think if you if you can see something coming up, then have the conversation before it does. That’s, I think that’s important. And they’ve been with their mom. If we don’t have those pre conversations, and we’re gonna walk into that situation,
Kate Toon:
Then they’re gonna play you, they’re gonna play you.
Russell Pearson:
But if we, if we do, then then the result is always better. And so, and because of the separation as well, I did realize I think this is a big, big step is that? If we’re okay, they’re okay.
Kate Toon:
That’s I so agree, don’t need to be exactly in agreement. But if you’re in a similar vein, and you both want the same end result, I think it can work well, my my ex, and I have wildly different parenting styles. But we want the same things for our son. And sometimes I just have to let him do it his way. And he has to let me do it my way. And it kind of that ying and yang creates a hole that works relatively well. So we’ve talked a lot about communication, which I love. How involved is your family with your business? How involved do your kids have? Do you feel like you might hand on the family business one day? Do they help you, you know, edit little videos,and do your post? Or are they totally disinterested? Where do they where are they on the scale?
Russell Pearson:
It’s interesting, because one of the things I’m trying to pass along, and again, you start forcing this on your kids, they’re going to like push away from it is my experience. You don’t need to work to earn money. Alright, that just that whole principle behind that, that money is not like directly result of hours of labor. And trying just to get that through. And I think that they are starting to, to get it, but they don’t have a real active role in the business outside of you know, every now and then they’ve said, I really want to make some money. Okay, well, I’ve got a small job for you, and you have them do a small job, and then they never do another job for a long time. And so I have no need to push them into it. They’re aware of the type of work that I do and funnily enough, because the work that I do is has a lot of video component they watch me on YouTube and
Kate Toon:
Are they mortified by you?
Russell Pearson:
Well, they I got a, they hate and love my dad jokes all in the same Oh, yeah. I can’t like your humor is ridiculous. I can’t believe you said that. Please never change.
Kate Toon:
Exactly. Oh, that sounds perfect. I mean, to be honest, I hate and love your dad jokes, too. And I love what you said. Yeah, my mom, my son is obviously you know, all kids are pretty driven by money. There’s things that they want. And you know, I call it like child led involvement, you have child led education, my son has built up those little Jobs got closer and closer together until he really wanted something big. And I was like, I’m literally just not going to pay for that. So if you want that, you’re gonna have to work for it. And it’s funny that I like what you talked about, you know, selling your mind, not your time. You know, my son was, had his own little video business. He was making little TikTok videos for people, you know, friends of mine. And he actually said he didn’t like that in the end he liked the more. Here’s, here’s what I’ve done an hour, I’ve earned this much. And I think at that age that can work. I think that evolvement into selling your mind, not your I think that some 40 year olds struggle with that, let alone 14 year olds. So it’s an interesting one. But I think it’s also opening up the idea that we weren’t taught that we didn’t get until we left our jobs that you can forge your own destiny that you don’t have to go down the conventional route. You know, you don’t have to get the job, buy the house, do the things. You know, there’s other ways to be and I’m doing air fingers again, successful. I think that’s that’s a good Yeah.
Russell Pearson:
And it was interesting, actually, because my father ran his own race for probably half of his working life. And I saw the ups and downs of that business. Now he had an unusual business. He was a debt collector and a private detective and a bunch of other weird things. But, I saw the anxieties and the frustration and the anger and then the how it spilt out. And so I didn’t think as a child that I would go into business, I never thought so but but maybe the seeds were planted?
Kate Toon:
I think so. Exactly the same with me. My dad had a business. And you know, I’ve talked about this within the minds me saying it that ultimately, we had a recession and his business closed, and it was very stressful. And you know, you think that will put you off, but I don’t know if it did, you know, I worked, I worked in, you know, corporate world for a long time before I took the plunge because I was very risk averse. But obviously, it’s turned out to be the best thing for me, because I don’t necessarily fit the mold. Let’s finish up with some quick questions around, I guess, self-care, you know, you’ve you come across, it may not be true. You come across as somebody who very much thinks about the way that they think, you know, there’s a level of self-awareness. And you’ve obviously been on a bit of a roller coaster, with the business and also with your family life. What does self care look like for you? Like, how do you keep yourself together and steady and keep going?
Russell Pearson:
So I think you’ve got to know yourself to a degree and that that part of that is part of the awareness. So for instance, I’m very much the magician, he experimenting, mad scientist guy. So I find opportunities to do that. So for instance, I have my own third space that’s down the property over here. And it has an anvil, and it has a forge, and it has all these different things here, right. So, so from time to time, and this and this, and I found that because I was too in my head, and I needed some outlet. And after realizing that blowing up the house wasn’t the way to go. It wasn’t electrical engineering. So it was like, alright, well, let’s, let’s do this thing. And so I found through YouTube blacksmithing. And so that in itself is a really nice physical outlet for me. But also, I think it is, maybe it is a self-awareness thing, but checking in with yourself and making sure that you’ve, what do you need right now. So for instance, I can, if I know that I’m feeling anxious, or I’m feeling like I’ve had too much MSG, that’s what the feeling is, I feel like sometimes, I can go out and turn the forge on and get the fire up and it’s hot. And I have to focus. That’s the type of meditation because if you don’t you burn yourself, right. And so you get to smash the hammer a bit, like some people do exercise something physical is my point, though. Other times, you’re trying to be creative, you’re trying to open you’re thinking, then then it is very much about going out, going out and going outside. So the way that I develop is I guess, knowing what I need. And then and then bringing those things into my life. So that’s into my environment, into my activities, like a weird one that I’m doing right now is that I know that consistency is the thing that I probably don’t I’m not as good as I would like to be. So what is it about that? Well, it’s getting to a certain level where I get into flow. That’s the thing that stops me. So I’m like, Alright, practice then will be the key. How can I make practice fun? And so how you do one thing to do everything, right, so I’m in the middle of teaching myself little coin tricks, again, weirdo, because it requires a certain level of practice to get good. Now me just doing that on a daily basis creates this habits for everything else that I’m doing. And that’s what I tend to do each year. And I know you and I’ve talked about what your theme for the year about whether you do that whether you don’t you know, all those sort of things. I find that helpful. I find it helpful to go what is this year about?
Kate Toon:
Oh I do that too.
Russell Pearson:
And I add stuff or I’m about to remove stuff.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I mean, I don’t necessarily have a word but I definitely have a vibe and I too am about that kind of you know, the atomic habits and the habit stacking of kind of building up one thing and then another and not over promising myself, you know, because in the past, I would say right, I’m gonna go to the gym every day for 30 days knowing that I would fail, failing, feeling like a failure. And that’s not exactly encouraging to take the next step.
Russell Pearson:
All right, flip for that one, for example, is that I go I want to listen to my podcast, but I can only listen to it when I’m doing this exercise.
Kate Toon:
Yes, I I’m very much incentive based. Yeah, you know, I can only watch this this terrible reality TV shows that I’m completely addicted to and gives me masses of dopamine and serotonin, if I’m on the running machine, so that works for me. But I also think, you know, if you do have a very cerebral job, you know, a job that requires intellect and thought, that kind of physicality is super important because it’s kind of the opposite. And vice versa. If you’re, you know, out doing quite a physical job, you need something kind of that’s purely intellectual at the end of the day, you know, maybe it’s learning an instrument or learning a language and just finding the element that you need, I think the back very similar there, you know, I love to garden and I love to make things and –
Russell Pearson:
One of my clients, or one of my clients was like, stressing about what’s going on in her business. She couldn’t understand what’s going on in her business. And I knew a little bit about her, I go, have you got a garden? She goes, Yes, I have. And tell me about your garden, blah, blah, blah. She tells me some stuff. This is growing fantastically. Funnily enough, if, if things don’t work out, I put them in the shade. And like what, so you actually removed the resource from the thing that it needs to grow if it’s not working together? Yeah. Is that happening in your business? Or no.
Kate Toon:
What a beautiful analogy.
Russell Pearson:
I made her go into her garden. Yeah, single every single week, she has to spend at least half an hour in the garden. And it helps her in her business.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I grubbing about in about in the mud is really grounding. I studied them, medieval mercantilism and agriculture, which obviously was incredibly useful in my life. But the analogy I like to use is having a fallow period you know, you’ve got one field with deep root vegetables, one field with light root vegetables, and one field that’s just left alone, we’re talking pre chemicals and whatever, and having a fallow periods you know where you do nothing. Already is the day where you do nothing and you let your your just the nutrients come back into the mental soil works really well for me so you can have that one to live an analogy me loving analogy. Russell, it’s been fantastic. Talking to you, if you could leave the listeners with kind of one bit of advice around, you know, managing this terrible juggle of trying to be successful in business and feel remotely like you’re doing a good job of being a parent, what would be your final words for listeners?
Russell Pearson:
The final thing I would say to all parents who are trying to juggle these things is, Your children are humans unto themselves. You can’t make them one way or other. They will develop into those people. You need to look after you, and if you look after you you’re looking after them, so you are not your children.
Kate Toon:
I love that. That’s, that’s memorable. I’m going to mean the crap out of that. Russell. Thank you so much for coming on the show now. Now where can we find out more about you and your business?
Russell Pearson:
I’m around. Russell Pearson spelled the way it’s supposed to be spelled ws Double L on Russell. Pearson is in the fruit, Pearson. And you can find me at Russell pearson.com. And just check me out on social media if you’re interested in any of the work that I do because I mean lots of places.
Kate Toon:
Fantastic. Well, we’ll link to your LinkedIn, your Facebook and your website in the show notes. Russell has been amazing talking to you. Thank you so much.
Russell Pearson:
Thanks, Kate. Awesome.
