“A lot of how we show up and who we are with our kids is just what was programmed in us from when we were kids. Sometimes that can go either way.
If you had one really extreme experience, you may actually flip to the other side, because of the trauma of even being close to that kind of behaviour. But for other people, they can have that kind of experience and still show up with that, because that’s actually just how you were coded.”
– Sam Jockel | ParentTV
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When it comes to parenting, cracking your own code for why you do what you do can be challenging and a little bit scary.
Today’s guest was not only a younger parent but also founded multiple businesses to support parents, including her latest venture, ParentTV.
Today we talk about how free-range kids often become entrepreneur types, the importance of being rather than doing, letting your kids be bored, and running a business with ADHD.
Also the concept of love bombing, which I think you’re going to enjoy.
This is a deep dive into the neural pathways of parenting with some awesome productivity, self-care and money tips thrown in.
Let’s get stuck in.
Tune in to learn:
- Sam’s parenting style
- Why Sam thinks being present is so important
- The power of planning
- How risk-taking has influenced Sam’s business
- Why parents struggle to let their kids be bored
- How to love-bomb
- The importance of structure
- How Sam balances parenting and her business
- Sam’s self-care strategies
Listen to the podcast
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About Sam Jockel
Sam Jockel started her career as a social worker and first launched into the digital world in 2010 when she started her first Facebook community for parents which grew from nothing to over 170,000 followers and counting.
In 2012 established another online community called School Mum which has grown to over 440,000 followers. In 2017 she ventured into the tech startup world and launched ParentTV a video streaming website personalising parenting advice from the world’s leading research-based parenting experts direct to parents via any digital device. Supporting the well-being of educators and families to ensure access to great information to make the world a better place is what Sam is all about!
Fun fact: Sam was in a Bollywood film that was shot in India called Tom, Dick and Harry
Connect with Sam Jockel
Buy the book
Transcript
Kate Toon:
When it comes to parenting, cracking your own code for why you do what you do, can be challenging and a little bit scary.
Today’s guest was not only a younger parent but also founded multiple businesses to support parents, including her latest venture, ParentTV.
Today we talk about how free ranges kids often become entrepreneur types, the importance of being rather than doing, letting your kids be bored, and running a business with ADHD.
Also the concept of love bombing, which I think you’re going to enjoy.
This is a deep dive into the the neural pathways of parenting with some awesome productivity, self care and money tips thrown in.
Let’s get stuck in.
My name is Kate toon. I’m the founder of stay tuned, a busy business owner and okayish parents and today I’m talking to Sam Jockle. Hello, Sam.
Sam Jockel:
Hello.
Kate Toon:
I’m gonna read out your bio now so you know who you are.
Sam Jockel:
Yes, that’s important.
Kate Toon:
Did you know this started her career as a social worker and first launched into the digital world in 2010, when she started her first Facebook community for parents which grew from nothing to over 170,000 followers and counting. In 2012, she established another online community called school mum, which is her which has now grown to 440 law club and say it 440,000 Good Lord. In 2017, she ventured into the tech startup world and launched parent TV, a video streaming website with personalized parenting advice from the world’s leading research base, parenting experts, direct parents via any digital device, supporting the well being of educators and families to ensure access to great information to make the world a better place. That’s what Sam is all about. We have a weird fact here. Sam was in a Bollywood film that was shot in India called Tom, Dick and Harry. OMG, what were you doing in that film, your body kind of story? Dancing.
Sam Jockel:
I was in bikinis. On the beach.
I was chasing Tom, Dick and Harry, who was actually like a blind, like the story was, ah, like a blind guy, a deaf guy and a mute guy. But essentially, it was like a song. So if you ever watch a Bollywood film, and they break out, yeah, we I was like, in a song. So an item and I was like a person in that dancing around the beach. And then we went to like, a campfire thing at night, and we were dancing around fire. The whole thing is ridiculous, and hilarious, and would be an entire podcast episode in and of itself. But yes,
Kate Toon:
I think it should be a video on parent’s TV like a cautionary tale. Don’t do this.
Sam Jockel:
Actually, I’m friends with some mates in the US who were originally from India, and one of them actually found the song on YouTube last week.
Kate Toon:
I was an extra in a film called death machine. Pretty good. And I jumped over a wall.
Sam Jockel:
Wow.
Kate Toon:
We were filming. We filmed for like 16 hours. And that was the result of it. And I think I got paid like $30 in a packet of crisps.
Sam Jockel:
Well, I put that on my resume. Not that I’ve ever gone for a job. But I’ve always wanted to put on my resume, like Bollywood film star.
Kate Toon:
Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
If someone put that on a resume that I was looking at resumes, I’d be like, Alright, I’m interviewing them.
Kate Toon:
I haven’t yet. I think really –
Sam Jockel:
I think that’s funny.
Kate Toon:
I think you should lead with that in your bio. 440,000 people in the community, whatever. Bikini dancer?
Sam Jockel:
Yes. Yes.
Kate Toon: That’s way more exciting. I lead with Gibbon keeper because I worked in a Gibbon sanctuary for a while. And sex chatline operator. Cos I briefly did that for two hours, I got fired.
Sam Jockel:
You should lead with that.
Kate Toon:
I know, I know.
Sam Jockel:
It could be this whole funny campaign on LinkedIn where we just went like-
Kate Toon:
Your true bio.
Sam Jockel:
Let’s put the funniest thing, come on, put the funniest thing in your byline that you’ve actually done.
Kate Toon:
True bios we could call it.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, just for a day it could be like LinkedIn. Like, what you’ve actually –
Kate Toon:
You’re allowed to be funny, you’re not allowed to be funny on LinkedIn, what you’re talking about.
Sam Jockel:
See, this is why I’ve never gone for a job I have to employ myself.
Kate Toon:
Exactly well, we’re going to be explaining ourselves, in many ways, things we’re gonna be talking about parenting and motherhood. With all of that you have a little bit of something to say about that. But before we do, tell us a little bit about your obviously you’re a successful businesswoman, and Bollywood superstar. Tell us a little bit about your family and business setup. What how does what does that look like?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, so I have a husband,
Kate Toon:
Well done.
Sam Jockel:
And I have three children, who are 15, 12 and eight. So I pretty much started. I launched my first ever company, when my eldest daughter was six weeks old. So I was working on it when I was pregnant with her. And I launched it when she was six weeks old. She’s 15. So
Kate Toon:
That’s so similar to me, like, I started my business when my son was in my tummy. And he’s 13 now going on 14, so yeah, that’s fun.
Sam Jockel:
I was worried when I was pregnant, like, I’m going to be bored. Yes. I need to have a plan.
Kate Toon:
What an idiot. I talk about this in the book that you know, people often talk about, you know, when I started out I had a little baby. And it was challenging. And I’m like, No, it wasn’t challenging. It was shit. Let’s be honest that first year, there was, it was awful. How was your first year when you had a tiny baby?
Sam Jockel:
Well,I mean, part of me doesn’t remember. So maybe I’m just blocking –
Kate Toon:
I don’t remember. I don’t – yeah.
Sam Jockel:
Like the PTSD from it all. Oh, and even when I think back to that first business that I did run like, it was so epically hectic in terms of like, what it even was like, I don’t, yeah, I must have been running on some crazy ass pregnancy postpartum hormones
Kate Toon:
Seriously.
Sam Jockel:
Like some that your body because it does. I mean, supposedly, your body does kick in, particularly in that first six weeks, I think to, you know, you being able to be superwoman and do lots of stuff, because you’ve just got to be available to baby, it just added all these other things into the mix.
Kate Toon:
What were we thinking? I mean, I do look back to that. I mean, obviously, I needed money. That was my main things. We were poverty stricken. And my partner then only had like one client, he’d started a French business just needed money. So it wasn’t really a choice or some kind of entrepreneurial thing. It was like, how do I make money now I can’t have a real job, you know. And so it was actually madness, to be honest, thinking back to it. And I don’t really think I came up for air properly until my son was about five. I guess I carried on, and I did things and I made decent money. But I didn’t feel like I made any kind of conscious decisions until he went to school because then things changed a little bit. What about you, you know, those first early years? Can you -I mean, you blocked it out, obviously. But-
Sam Jockel:
You know,as I actually walk back and really think about it, I actually had started so that business was called BD bags. It was like a product business that a tangible product business handmade. It’s like before Etsy, before all the things it was, it was a not-for-profit. And we merged the crafting abilities of like the Nana’s of Redcliff. And we made a whole bunch of like, Cochet designed handbags. I was like, 21 Oh, 22 and I had gotten into this like mentorship program with youth arts, Queensland. And I remember finding out that I was pregnant during that. And I was like, oh, and I remember telling because I had this mentor allele Ali. I remember telling him and I felt like telling him I was pregnant was like telling my parents I was pregnant when asked if I was like, 16. Yeah. Because it was like, What is this mean? And am I still gonna do this? This idea because I was fully committed. Am I still allowed to do this idea?
Sam Jockel:
I remember lying on the floor. We had like these training sessions like with, what do you call it, morning sickness. Like just listening. It was pretty hilarious. But uh, it was Queensland man it was radical organization? So they’ll probably like yes, we want to support this.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. Like those early years, you just do what you can do you get it done. I mean, you’re much younger than me. I was 34 when I had my son so I was already exhausted. And perhaps you had the the exuberance of youth on your side. Now, obviously, you’ve got these big communities you run parents in TV, I’m sure that you’ve thought about this, at some point, whether you have a kind of a parenting style, you know, the other four intrinsic styles of parenting, but now we also have things like helicopter parenting, Tiger parenting, all these terminologies, whether they’re useful labels or not like anything is up to you. But do you think you have a style of parenting? How would you describe your parenting style?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, if I was, even with the classic ones, I would say I’d probably be leaning into being quite a free-range parent.
Kate Toon: Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
And, you know, part of that is because that’s what how I was parented. And what I have come to learn, I guess a lot through my parent TV journey is, a lot of how we show up and who we are with our kids is just what was programmed in us from when we were kids. Sometimes that can go either way. Like, if you had one really extreme experience, you may actually flip to the other side, because of the trauma of even being close to that kind of behavior. But for other people, they can still have that kind of experience and still show up with that, because that’s actually just how you were coded. And we run those programs. So, you know, I think being quite entrepreneurial in and of itself is a reflection of sometimes free range parents, because what that actually means for kids is that you were left to figure a lot out on your own, I would say I was free ranged with very little processing from my parents in terms of doing things I just was left to figure-
Kate Toon:
Figure it out, yeah.
Sam Jockel:
Figure it out. You know, I’ll I won’t get into the I won’t get too intense this early on. But in terms of what that psychologically means. But, you know, like, what that has meant for me as a parent is I have yet passed that on. And I’ve actually had to do a little bit of work, and stopping myself to help my kids probably more than my parents helped me in terms of with things and not just expecting them to have it when they don’t, because that’s unrealistic.
Kate Toon:
I think that’s interesting, I think, you know, because I would say, I’m an authoritative parent, or, you know, I’m quite sort of have rules and kind of boundaries. But I’m also quite a permissive parent in that I really much want my son to like me. And sometimes, therefore, I’ll bend those rules completely, because I don’t want him to be unhappy, you know. And I think you’re right. Like, some of the things my parents did, I’ve gone completely the opposite. Like, I never want to be like that. And then other times, you just hear your parents voices coming out of your mouth, and you’re like, What, oh, my God, I said that thing that I never said I’d, I’d say, I think, you know, I kind of find the labels a little bit unhealthy. I mean, I find labels in general quite unhelpful. And I think it’s kind of like, almost more about coming up with a bit of a code of what you what works for you. And some of that is unpacking. Oh, well, look at me look at the why just said why did I say that? I don’t even mean that. It’s weird. It’s such an adventure.
Sam Jockel:
Oh, absolutely. I would always say, I’m not a maternal person. I’ve never been a maternal person. Like, I was the youngest in my family, like, of everyone, so cousins, and everyone like I was the baby. So I never grew up with any children that were younger than me.
Kate Toon:
Weren’t looking after anything.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, nah.
Kate Toon:
And it’s a fine line, isn’t it? You know, he talks about being kind of a free-range parent and not letting your kids work it out. It’s such a fine line between letting them work it out letting them make mistakes, but also giving them guidance and making them feel supported. And it’s a tricky one. And you know, obviously the book is all about trying to balance the two things, you know, you’ve obviously got income goals, you’ve got goals that you just re own psychological wellbeing that you want to have a business you want to feel have a purpose in this world. And that’s okay. You know, you’re allowed to be a parent and have things for yourself. How? How did you balance the business? You’ve done a few different things. But how did you balance the business parenting thing over the years? You said, for example, sometimes maybe the business made you be a bit too permissive. And sometimes you have to go Oh, yeah, hang on, I better go and show my kids how to do this. How have you juggle those two beasts? The business and the babies?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, look, I think that it is. It’s just I’m calling it the messy middle. It’s a struggle. And I feel really grateful that I did like, now that I know that what I know with parent TV. It’s like, oh, I kind of wish I knew some of this back then. Because my kids are a bit older now. And I’ve only been doing parent TV for six years. But what I’m really grateful about is that I did like a social work degree. So I had some core fundamentals that I kind of understood in those early days that and this is like, maybe this sounds weird, or it’s not. I’m a doer, right? My struggle is learning to just be present.
Kate Toon:
Preach.
Sam Jockel: Not just like, doo doo doo doo doo. My kids got, I think, a pretty good first kind of 1000 days, early years, which is the most critical time of like, child development. Pretty good. On the me doing. Probably pretty not so great on the me being. So I knew, so I like breastfed my kids until they were two like I had. This is just my brain. I had all these like, right? What do I need to do to make sure that right, they need to breastfeed. Like there was things like they did sleep in my bed to my room, my kids slept in a hammock, that’s a whole other thing. I didn’t do controlled crying. I breastfed my kids till they were two. They were kind of at home for the first 18 months. And then they went to daycare. But they never did more daycare than they were with me until they went to school. So it was –
Kate Toon:
So it was if you have these kinds of rules,
Sam Jockel:
I did have, really –
Kate Toon:
Ticking a checkbox. Yeah, I did. I did too. And similar to yours. You know, my son went into daycare about a year and a half, which was huge relief is only a couple of days a week. But that mental space I had I had gotten mad if I hadn’t done that. But yeah, I was like, I must read to him as much as I can.
Sam Jockel:
Yes, must read.
Kate Toon:
And we must have bookshelves, and we must have music. And we must my husband’s French, so he must watch Baby Einstein in French, you know, like you said, those first four or five years, until school, I really did put the put the hours in. I’m interested in this thing you said about being. Because I wondered, the biggest issue I found when writing the book and just coming back to it was the lack of time. That’s the biggest thing that people come back to me, you know, like, I just don’t feel I have enough time in the day to do all the things I need to do. And therefore that lack of time means you don’t have as much time to be, because anytime you do have you fill it full of activities, you fill it for the stuff like I can’t, I can’t just sit and watch telly with you for now. We must be doing an organic gingerbread cookie exercise or making a jigsaw and I think that’s the biggest struggle. So is that for you the time the being the doing nothing? Is that, was that a challenge for you?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah. And I think that thing isn’t just about not actually doing anything but being present. It’s about being present. And you really have my attention.
Kate Toon:
Yes.
Sam Jockel:
And that is about the noise in my head is quiet. But this has nothing to do with you can’t force that. The reason why we’re not that isn’t a choice, per se. It sometimes is the result of often our own childhoods that, you know, and the thing was that I didn’t even know it was happening. And I didn’t even know it was there until I went on a very personal journey. Like the last three, I would just say healing journey. And this was my parenting the last three years where some significant I would just say coding got re coded in me. And suddenly I was like, oh, and I could tell my kids would just respond differently to me. Just because my disposition, my presence was just like they knew I was actually with them and not side by side but somewhere else but actually with them.
Sam Jockel:
And I mean, I haven’t shared this story very much. But you know, for me I had some significant trauma happen when I was about 14 for three years, I was in a relationship with someone much older than me. And funnily enough, like what happened for me. So this is kind of the story of what led to some pretty deep understanding of this stuff was as my eldest daughter was approaching 14. That was actually a trigger of part of my unraveling, which I didn’t know at the time, but my psychologist has since like, shared with me. And there was a lot of stuff that happened during that those early years for me that created stories and narrative and noise in my head. And that never went away. And that just continuously like, stayed there. I mean, I would just call it anxiety. But I call it the noise because you don’t. Yeah, but I didn’t know it was there. But as I kind of as she was approaching that age, I think two things were happening. One there was this, like, what do I do to make sure that like, she’s safe, but two, it was also hold on, that’s what a 14 year old looks like, there’s no way that she would be responsible for the things that I believed I was responsible for.
Sam Jockel:
And the narratives and the stories in my head started, I started to question them. And then that questioned the entire foundation of like, kind of who I was. So when we laughed at the start about who are you it’s, it’s only really the last few years that I’ve actually started to, like, peel back all of the narrative and all of the stories that I had told myself for years that were often other people’s store it like, I didn’t get to decide, I was allowing everybody else to decide to like, do that work to Yeah, and in, I think, knowing and just seeing my daughter, like, at the age. Yeah, I don’t know, it’s just a really, really fascinating thing. But um, but now that I have, like really intentionally done a lot of personal work on myself, like, I can’t describe it to people, but it was like, I was crazy, manic ADHD, Sam, it was just like, this was a little it was, but now, I don’t even have to do the work to not be that like, I can just, I don’t know. But yeah, I mean that. There’s a whole process there that that happened. But I did realize that, that being thing, like we talk about it, and it’s like, people have made it, I’ve always found it hard to meditate, yoga, all of these bits and pieces. But once I realized that, yeah, the noise, it’s just the noise.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. I have, I think a lot of people have the noise. You know, for me, after spending so long working on this book, I think for me, you know, the goal of all of it really is to either be on or be off, you know, like, either you’re working or you’re not working that for me, it’s been, it’s pretty black and white, isn’t it, but like when I’m working, I’m working. And that’s what I’m doing. And when I’m being a parent, I’m being a parent. And even if you can just manage to create that little bit of division. It’s such a huge step, you know, just to not have everything washing over and everything being a meshed. But as you said, a lot of work has to be done to get there. I think for me as well, the last couple of years have been quite fundamental, since I gave up alcohol completely, not that I was a massive booze beast that even just dulling the edges with a glass of wine every now and again, just made me less present, you know, maybe less able to be and you do see such a change in your in your child when they see that you’re there. That’s really interesting. So you have kind of covered off the challenge there. Do you ever get? Do you ever get parent guilt? I mean, you do a lot. You’ve got to, you know, do you ever feel guilty about not spending enough time with your kids or not giving them attention? Or have you or is that something you’ve overcome now?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, I don’t feel like I live with, it pops up every now and then if I’m feeling guilty about anything, it’s probably at this point in my journey. Knowing my kids are probably on devices and watching them longer than they should just because I can’t be asked like, giving them my attention or putting the effort in. But having said that, I probably give my kids more attention and put more effort in and then a lot of people so partly we just haven’t actually done the work of sitting with them being angry, bored and frustrated because this is it over to technology because that makes me because that’s annoying for me. It’s annoying for me when you’re bored. Yes. And so I have to get better at managing those feelings. And yeah, I can just accept that you’re disappointed, angry, frustrated, raging. because you’re bored, and you just want to be in technology, and I, that’s annoying for me that you’re behaving that way.
Kate Toon:
And I want those easier to just give you a device. Yeah, I noticed that with my partner and I like he’ll take my son out for the day, he won’t let him take his mobile phone. And so they’re on the train my my son’s boarding them and, and I would rather give him the phone so that I could chill on the train and have any day you’re so right. That’s so interesting. But you know, and I think people put a lot of pressure on themselves about devices in my day. I’m a child of the 80s. It was television. You know, television was rotting our mind, we were all watching too much telly. I used to have the telly on when I was revising all the time it was company for me though it was company, it was just the murmur of noise. And look, it’s done me no harm. I’m a genius. So it’s all worked out fine. I think yeah, kids need a bit of time to defrag. And that to just wind down and that is the modern method of winding down. It’s a funny one, isn’t it? And you obviously get a lot done. I mean, you’ve achieved a lot massive groups and whatever. What is your for the listeners? What is your number one productivity tip? What makes it work for you? I know, you mentioned that you, you know you have ADHD and that can be really hard to focus on an individual task. Right. So how do you manage that?
Sam Jockel:
Well, so I think that 80 stuff or ADHD, I haven’t I’ve also haven’t had a proper diagnosis. I just joke that I do because everyone’s like I do. But I actually also think I have. I’ve looked at that a little bit. And it’s a bit attached to, there’s some theories around it being attached to some childhood trauma stuff. And because I’ve done a bit of work, I feel like I’m less, it’s funny, I feel like I’m actually becoming relatively normal, which is a bit boring. And I’m worried that if I became normal would like my superpowers go away. But part of the might the ADD thing or whatever it is, you can actually have hyper focus as much as you can, like, have I don’t focus so I can get like crazy.
Kate Toon:
Crazy into stuff.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, like the days and I think I’ve heard you talk about this where I could have dropped my kids to school still been in my pajamas, come home, walked in, sat down at my computer and literally not got up for like seven hours and still be in that way. Pick them up holding in that wee wait and you haven’t eaten. And you go, what just happened? Yeah, I was just went by like, yeah, got a lot done. Yeah. In terms of productivity, too. It’s like, I love Google Calendar. So I’m a bit of a lot to get it, like, have it on list. So I do, I do have lists of things that I want to achieve that day. And I just have this thing in me that is like, You’re not leaving to get that done. And I just have the ability to get stuff done. Now, I don’t know if this is a productivity tip or not. But I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because my teams have gone from like, one to 10 back to like, I’ve had all different kinds of things.
Kate Toon:
And my biggest productivity tip is that I nearly know how to do absolutely everything myself. And so I just can do it if I need to do it. And that actually, yeah, I know people talk about delegate delegate delegate, like I get that to a degree. But I’ve also just learned because of who I am and how I operate. Sometimes delegating takes more time than me just doing it myself. Now I know that that comes, that becomes a problem. If you’re looking to build a company that’s going to scale substantially. But if you’re not looking at that, and you know, sometimes it’s just like, Oh, that’s not a fun task to do. It’s just like, you know, cleaning the toilet kind of task. But the reason I can do so much is because I know how to nearly do everything. And if I need to do it, I can get stuff done. And staff do not work this way, operate, they just generally don’t because they’re not interested. They don’t own it. It’s not their baby, it’s the difference between like, it’s your baby, versus like, you’re working at a childcare center, looking after someone you’re just going to be caring about and doing that kind of a bit differently. So just having those skills is good, because I always know I’m alright.
Kate Toon:
Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
But obviously getting people to do stuff. But yeah, my Google Calendar and I don’t know, I kind of joke and I don’t do that like growing up my parents, like I did a paper on for 10 years from like grade four, where we had to get up at 5am in the morning, fold. Like, I don’t know, 1000 papers and deliver them. I remember the like the black ink on my hands. It was the horrible worst feeling ever. But I remember feeling physically sick, like twice a week at 5am in the morning doing this thing that we did the money went into our bank account, like had to buy my own car. My parents never bought anything but that money went in. I had that money when I was in grade 12 bought a car or whatever. But I believe because my brother and sister are the same. They’re very similar to me. Through my parents teaching us probably accidentally probably slightly abusively, to feel sick and horrible, and to do it anyway, for 10 years.
Kate Toon:
That was the key. Yeah
Sam Jockel:
I know what it is like.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think what came across from me there with the various things you were saying was, is that a lot of it’s through determination. And I find that that’s, you know, I talked about in the book about passion being a huge business killer. You know, passion doesn’t last. It’s fleeting, it is the 5am wake up, I had a paper round too, I was subcontracted it from my brother. So I even didn’t get all the money. He kept the money and just paid me a little bit. He’s an entrepreneur. So yeah, that that determination. And I agree with you on the on the delegation thing, too. I mean, I think delegation has its place, but it’s not always the right option, you know, especially if, if it causes you anxiety, if it causes stress. And if, you know, as you said, it’s about whether it’s going to be long term beneficial. Yes, I’m gonna invest this time now. Because I appreciate it’s gonna pay off in a while, but it will have that time. Sometimes you just need to get it done. But I think determination is the big thing. For a lot, persistence and determination.
Sam Jockel:
Oh, absolutely. And just knowing what it’s like to feel like crap, and to keep showing up.
Kate Toon:
Yes, regardless, you know, not to base your day on how successful you feel, how motivated you feel, how inspired you feel, something you said that I think is important is you make a list of things to do, and you commit to doing them. And I think that’s so important. You know, I think a lot of people struggle to make a realistic to do list. So they constantly set themselves up for failure, because they were never going to achieve all of that today, you’ve only got four hours, what were you thinking, so you finish every day feeling on the backfoot. It’s about realism. And also determination, it’s all the boring stuff.
Kate Toon:
Let’s talk about money. As you know, the book is called six figures in school hours. And that six figures is a funny one, because that could be revenue, that could be profit, that could be your take home salary, or whatever. It’s kind of whatever you want that to be, but I think a lot of people in business, start with a dream of maybe making 10k a month or making 100k in a year or matching the salary that they had before or exceeding it, whatever, whatever it is, there is a money element to it, how much money you want, is your thing, and very personal but there’s a money aspect to this, we need money. What is your money tip for business owning parents?
Sam Jockel:
In some ways, I’m like a massive risk taker. But in some ways, like, I always have a plan. So I came from my dad ran his own companies. My sister’s an accountant, he turned into an accountant, like, we probably had a lot of money conversations around the table. I think I do realize that I had a bit of a fear of poverty instilled in me as a child. And that was partly because my dad’s like, came from like, his mom passed when he was 10. He didn’t really have dad around. And he literally was like, pretty much on his own, to figure it out from like, 10. So, you know, I think when I think about how my parents trained us, not consciously, it’s just that’s what they knew. It was like, there was this, like, you need to have a handle on this and you need to know what’s going on. And have a plan and never get yourself in a position where you there is nothing, there is no backup. So one thing I’ve always I’ve always had peace because I’ve always had a backup. I’m not some big crazy, right high risk, like, my whole entire mortgage is on the line. And I’ve never, I’ve always so I’m someone who doesn’t want for a lot of things. Like I don’t get my worth and my value in what my house looks like how big my car is. In fact, I get it from you know, buying earrings from an Op shop for 50 cents like that makes me excited. And so I’ve shopped at Aldi for a long time, still do.
Kate Toon:
I still do. Aldi’s great. So you manage your you manage your income expectations and your desires, which I think is crucial, you know, like that the line is your savings or your gap between your ego and your income. You know, which I love that line because it’s you know, we can all want more. There’s always more and being satisfied with what you have really helps you manage your income goals. But yeah, that having a buffer having a backup, yeah, it’s been important to you and having some security and not being too much of a wild risk taker.
Sam Jockel:
No, I’ve never been a wild risk taker, but to some people I would be a wild risk taker and the amount of risk I take is far beyond what a lot of people could take but I don’t think people fully understand like the pieces that I understand that are in play like when I first launched parent TV like I didn’t take a wage for two years, but I knew that I wasn’t taking away for two years and I was just state school, like I had this whole entire plan in place like I kind of I was still earning some money from school malman. So you know,
Kate Toon:
It’s mitigated risk. It’s planned risk. Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
All of it was there. And so yeah, I’m kind of I’m really good. And that’s probably part of the anxiety stuff. But I’m like a super planner. So I’m making decisions now about like a six months from here. So I’m going alright, I’ve got a six month runway here, if I don’t see this, this and this. And I’ve had to do some really hard things like let staff go and a whole range of different things that I haven’t wanted to do way in advance. Like, I don’t leave things until like, I can’t pay the payroll next week, like you guys have to leave. I’m like, so my sister is actually my accountant for all of my stuff. And I meet with her like fortnightly, she, I have a full running cash flow, profit and loss on everything, like I know exactly where I’m at what bills I have to pay that haven’t even come out of our cash flow yet, like what’s coming up, like how much I’m going to have, and I make decisions about the business based on that. So I think, yeah, if you I have a very, very solid handle on finances. And that’s why I have managed to make parent TV like get as far as it has, like, I know, with what I faced and had to move through this last six years. If I did not have if I wasn’t financially competent, and very clear about that. There’s no way I would be here. 100% like, yeah, I don’t know, I think that stuff I’m probably like kind of good at. But people would look at me and think Why is she making that decision? Now? I can I’ll make decisions now that it’s about something that’s happening in six months.
Kate Toon:
All right. So we’ve covered off productivity, we’ve covered off money. Let’s whiz through the last few questions. We’ll keep these ones. Let’s do them fast round. Okay. You obviously Parent TV with a section that I watched was a lot about team communication. So I’m hoping you can talk to that, we’ve had some parents who have younger children. What is what is a tip that you have for communicating with maybe older kids, teenage kids?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah. So one of the things that I do with my, well now to kind of teenage daughters is once a week, I take them out for breakfast, out of our house at 7:30 in the morning before school at a place near their school, one on one, so separate. And I just actually started this when my eldest daughter started grade seven, high school, and I just sit with them and I let them eat whatever they want. And we just sit and talk about everything talk about nothing, or whatever for about half an hour, 45 minutes, then I dropped them to school
Kate Toon:
I love that, that’s short and sweet. It’s really nice.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah. So there’s some very –
Kate Toon:
I might steal that.
Sam Jockel:
No, you should steal it. So there’s important some important things around it wasn’t just I didn’t accidentally do that. It’s a thing. It’s called love bombing, but in a positive way, not in a sociopathic way. Because that’s what sociopaths do, too. But you can do with your kids because you love them not because you’re trying to control and manipulate.
Kate Toon:
Okay.
Sam Jockel:
I’m just saying if you search love bombing, like, one of the experts talked about it, it’s how they heal some of the attachment trauma that is in foster kids. But when I looked into it, I also was like, Oh, this is also like a tactic that people use, which is actually good to be aware of, because you can protect yourself from it. That’s a whole other story.
Kate Toon:
Okay.
Sam Jockel:
Coming back to teenagers, and this, what is important is that it’s the same time every week. Because you say to them at this time, every week, you have my full attention, and you’re the most important thing, and nothing is allowed to Trump that. And there’s something about the consistency, that’s actually really powerful. And when I started this with my eldest daughter, the first like month or so we just looked at each other. And it was actually difficult for us to talk about anything because we didn’t have a fully connected relationship. But it’s that one hour a week that has transformed our relationship and taught us how to just be with each other. It’s really important that the parent has no agenda, like I don’t go there talking about I need you to clean your room. Get off your technology. I just am like we are just here to be together. That’s it.
Kate Toon:
Are your kids involved in your business, like are they are they working with you? Do they help out at all, you know, they’re going to take over the family business one day?
Sam Jockel:
Bits and pieces so my two daughters were cleaning my office when I had an office near our house. They started cleaning my office and I paid them money before they ever even cleaned our house and then I was like now I know that you know how to clean the toilet and vacuum you could do that at home. My eldest daughter has done some social media stuff. Yeah, I don’t, I’m still on the fence like about turning some of our relationships stuff at home into work. Like I’ve had to work really hard to pull back from talking about my work. And my kids already kind of feel like because I’m parent TV, and I’ll be posting on social media at times about don’t post about them specifically, but that parenting stuff like my daughter’s friends follow me. They like me, she hates it. It’s a whole thing. Just because of the nature of my work.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, it’s a bit different, isn’t it? Blurred lines.
Sam Jockel:
It’s a bit tricky.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, it’s working well, for me and my son, we have, really love bombing, I’ve now realized because I take him to the gym pretty much every day, and that’s our little time. And then with the business, you know, he’s, he’s really enjoying it. Obviously, he’s mortified by my existence on social media. Everything I do is painful. But he’s quite right about it as well. He, he’s always saying, whenever I take a photo, he’s like, Oh, is that going on your Instagram? Hashtag quirky life. That’s what he always says. So I think that it’s interesting. Yours is specifically about parenting. So that’s a challenge.
Sam Jockel:
They do involve themselves and I pay them, they’re more happy to do it when I pay them. My daughter says-
Kate Toon:
Oh, yeah, you’ve gotta pay them.
Sam Jockel:
Well, yeah. But I’m always like, with social media stuff. It’s weird, because she’s like, No, I don’t want that on social media. And then if I’m like, I’ll give you 20 bucks. She’s like, Yeah, alright.
Kate Toon:
Oh yeah that’s a bit weird. Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
You can’t just be okay with it now you’re getting money,
Kate Toon:
There’s a micro influencer. You’re just an influencer client.
Sam Jockel:
What is this? I don’t know. It’s weird when a lot of your stuff on social media.
Kate Toon:
It is it’s a hard line. And I think, you know, something that comes up a lot is, you know, how much of my personal life should I share? And I think it’s completely up to you. So, you know, my son has fully banned me from sharing any photos of him and ever mentioned him by name. He’s not mentioned by name in the book, you know, because he needs his own identity. I want him to go out there and have a blank slate, you know, so when someone Google’s his name, they’re not seeing weird posts that I’ve done on social media seven years ago, but that’s his call. Right? You know, yeah. It’s a hard one a hard line in this world that we live in. Now. Let’s wrap up then with a bit of personal stuff. How, you know, what does self-care look like? You mentioned that you’re very driven, you’re persistent. You know, if you say you’re gonna do something, you do it, you’ve already got two mornings a week where you have to have breakfast with your kids Good grief, when there’s some get some time. And what does time for Sam look like?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah. So I go to the gym three times a week, that’s like pretty much nearly a non-negotiable. And that I just prioritize like, I’ve been doing that for five years. So that really has become something that I enjoy. And that I do. I’m like, I go to bed, like eight hours of sleep every night. I fast until like 10. I’m a very, like, I feel like I’m a boring person. Like I’m not.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I’m boring too. I’m listening to you going I do all of that.
Sam Jockel:
Like how much structure is in my life.
Kate Toon:
Exactly.This is what people, people that come in, like, Oh, you do all this stuff. And I’m like, Yeah, and it’s on a frickin schedule. And I am eight hours, and I have my breakfast at this time. And I only ever have one coffee, and it has to be before nine o’clock, or 9am Bibbidi Bobbidi. List of all – It’s like a set of rules.
Sam Jockel:
I know, I make my family the same nearly like seven meals every week.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, same.
Sam Jockel:
Everybody eats it and I buy the same lunch when I go –
Kate Toon:
Taco Tuesday. I eat the same food. Talked about I was you know, Steve Jobs and how he wore the same T shirts, he had 20 T shirts. And so it’s for me, it’s a lot about reducing the number of decisions that you have to make every day. Because my brain is wild. And off it will go the noise, the noise and having structure and things not being a decision. It’s not a decision. It just happens at the gym at this time, every day. And therefore I don’t decide there’s no decision. It just happens. Yeah, it’s not to noise down, you know, and allow some quiet for other things.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, so one of the things I will say because people do I mean three kids and doing what I do is pretty insane. But yeah, I’m very structured. So a few things to note is like I have three sets of grandparents who are relatively all happy to help.Oh, some level
Kate Toon:
I’m jealous.
Sam Jockel:
So, you know, if and my husband, you know, is supportive of what I do. There have been periods in the past where he has worked part time or just on supply teaching, and really worked around what I’ve been doing. We I would say we have a solid equal partnership. And you know, that didn’t just happen like I do remember before we even got married. I knew it was like I was saying things like if you just expect that I’m going to look after the kids like you probably best not marry me and so you know, you’re like he’s still probably in some ways. We’re had some inheritance and roles-
Kate Toon:
Traditional role ideas,
Sam Jockel:
We all do.
Kate Toon:
We all do. We all do Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
you know, we’re coming up to 20 years being married. And I would say, you know, and the last few years, as I’ve even been going on my journey, I’ve had to adjust. I’ve been adjusting some things that I’m saying, I’m actually not taking responsibility for that anymore. Like, I started to put some more boundaries up around some things. And, you know, it is a continual ongoing conversation. But we are both really, we’re probably both really good communicators. But none of this would be possible without having surrounded myself with, like, I’m well supported. But that does doesn’t accidentally happen. Like I also provide support to people where I can and really, like I’m always communicating in advance what I need.
Kate Toon:
You’ve created your village, and it’s a two-way street, isn’t it? You give and you get.
Sam Jockel:
I’m never last minute. So generally people
Kate Toon:
A planner.
Sam Jockel:
Yeah. So you know, you’ve got to be a planner, if you’ve, if you’re managing hectic schedules. I’m literally calling my mom a month out, going these are the dates for next month. Are you good with those? No, you’re not alright, I’ll just check in with Joan or okay. She’s not I might not be able to do that. Because, but I know like, I’m not leaving it till like, Mom, what are you doing tomorrow? Can you hear the kids from school, we’ve taught our kids to catch the bus home, like, our kids know how to catch the bus home, they know how to use their phones, like, they’ve got keys in their bags, like, so, you know, I’m training as much some independence from my kids as much, you know.
Sam Jockel:
I mean, people would freak out. But when my middle two were, you know, scarred precisely when my grade five child and my prep child, were catching a bus home together and you know, walking down and, you know, people would freak out, but actually like they’re fine. And if anything, like they’re super confident, like, it’s the thing, we’re so afraid of bad things happening to our kids, we actually communicate to them that they are not capable, and they should be afraid, and that they need us. It’s like, your job is the opposite. As a parent, it’s to instill confidence in your children, that they’ve got this. Now, obviously, you have to do that appropriately. So you walk with them. But part of the issue of this overparenting that’s happening, like Sorry, I’m going on a slight rant, but I’ll be done is when I pick my kids up from high school, like they were on a bus last year, and they were the only kids on that bus. And I’m like, there was like, four wheel drives, like everywhere. And I was thinking oh my gosh, like our kids, actually, we are doing them a disservice even though they hadn’t had to walk home and it’s bad, heavy, and it’s hard. And maybe someone’s gonna like abduct them. I’m like, Do you know the risk of your child like getting diabetes and mental health issues? Through like,
Kate Toon:
Lack of exercise.
Sam Jockel:
Lack of agency and skills far outweighs by like 1000s the chance of them being randomly abducted, like, we’ve got the risks wrong. Anyway, this is a little rant.
Kate Toon.
This is a whole other episode. But yeah, no, I get you. Yeah.
Sam Jockel:
Like, yeah, like, our kids are so much more capable, that we’re afraid of the wrong things. Like, that’s the one thing I’ll say to parents out there. really sit and think about what are you afraid of, and why? And what is your responsibility in all of that, but our Yeah, our kids, it’s funny, some of my daughter’s parents and like, she knows, like on a phone, you can type in maps and put in like, I want to go to Chermside. And then you can find the bus route and walk to the closest bus and get on the bus car, no matter where she is. She’s like, can get out and she’s teaching her friends how to do it and they think it is the best thing ever. And these parents are like, Wow, thanks like our kids. And it’s like, yeah, it’s all there. Like, our kids can do this. We just have to stop being so afraid that something bad’s gonna happen because you know what, really bad things are happening. Because we’re not doing this.
Kate Toon:
Ooh I like that. That’s a great note to end on. I love that. That’s a quotable quote. From Jocko, it’s great to talk to you. Where can we find out more about parent TV?
Sam Jockel:
Yeah, so just parents tv.com learning dot parent tv.com is another website that’s like a one off marketplace for courses. Parent. tv.com is our subscription product which is kind of like a Netflix or YouTube parenting resources.
Kate Toon:
and you’re on Tik Tok. You’re on Instagram or YouTube or on Facebook, and then the big groups as well. We’ll include links to all of those in the show notes as well as your communities. Sam, it’s been fascinating talking to you. So much of what you say is just like yeah, preach. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Sam Jockel:
No worries, thank you.
