“I keep a list of what I’ve done. Because at the end of the day, I’ve been sitting for six or seven hours in here. What have I done? I’ve done five things, and they’re all important. I have actually achieved something, but you don’t remember.”
Nick Gale | Nick’s Digital
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Many of us start our own businesses for the same reasons.
We want to escape the nine-to-five.
Our boss is a shitgibbon and we’re sick of working for them.
We’d love to spend more time with our family.
There’s a whole section in my book on this.
But often you’ll find yourself working MORE hours, instead of less, putting up with difficult customers, and struggling to balance family time as you work out where home starts and work stops.
Our guest today has only been running his own business for the last couple years and knows these struggles all too well.
In today’s episode, we’ll be diving into the joys and challenges of parenting while running a business, exploring how he and his partner balance their roles and maintain flexibility.
So, join us as we uncover the realities of being a tech-savvy parent in today’s digital world.
Tune in to learn:
- How Nick and his wife divided up the work week and childcare
- What boundaries he has in place for working from home
- The biggest challenges Nick has faced transitioning from being a full-time technician, to running a business from home
- Why melding work and home life doesn’t always work out
- How Nick deals with parent guilt
- Why he uses colour coding to stay productive
- How he manages his money
- Nick’s top tip for parents
- What self-care looks like for Nick
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About Nick Gale
Nick is an IT guy for nearly 20 years. Licenced Comms tech. Diagnostician is best description of what Nick does. He’s worked in government as a desk nerd, moved to IT field engineer in ORACLE, in both Melbourne and Brisbane.Got a golden handshake. Worked in HP enterprise, suddenly a big team and got a golden handshake.
He reconfigured life to be a Telstra Tech, quickly upskilled to platinum services and business NBN services on Telstra, Got a golden handshake. Worked briefly for a fleet/dvr sales circus, or business. Got a golden handshake.
Nick has been out on his own for 2 years now, helping small biz take the tech stress away.
Fun Fact: Nick worked at a servo.
Connect with Nick Gale
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Transcript
Kate Toon
Many of us start our own businesses for the same reasons. We want to escape the nine to five. Our boss is a shitgibbon and we’re sick of working for them.We’d love to spend more time with our family. There’s a whole section in my book on this. But often you’ll find yourself working MORE hours, instead of less, putting up with difficult customers, and struggling to balance family time as you work out where home starts and work stops.Our guest today has only been running his own business for the last couple years and knows these struggles all too well. In today’s episode, we’ll be diving into the joys and challenges of parenting while running a business, exploring how heand his partner balance their roles and maintain flexibility. So, join us as we uncover the realities of being a tech-savvy parent in today’s digital world. My name is Kate toon, founder of stay tuned, busy business owner and okayish parent and today I’m talking with Nick Gale. Hello, Nick. Hello, Kate. So I’ll let everybody know who you are from a business point of view and then we’ll talk more about your parenting point of view in a minute. So you are an IT guy with nearly 20 years of experience, a licensed context, diagnostic is the best description of what Nick does. He’s worked in the government as a desk nerd moved into the IT field in Oracle in both Melbourne and Brisbane, got a golden handshake, worked in HP Enterprise suddenly led a big tip and got a golden handshake he reconfigured life to be a Telstra tech quickly upskill to platinum services, and business MBM services, got a golden handshake and now worked briefly for a fleet sales circus or business and got a golden handshake has been out on his own for two years now helping small businesses and taking the tech stress away a lot of golden handshakes that I actually don’t know what golden handshake is, is that the means
Nick Gale
of redundancy, I’m very good at getting myself into a position where they then go, oh, we have to restructure and
Kate Toon
I’ve never been made redundant. I think I’d quite like it re for 3343. And did they give you a big old wad of cash?
Nick Gale
Yeah, but it’s never quite enough. No. It’s this kind of the break in between
Kate Toon
it is but discombobulating and everyone says it’s good to have the break, but only if you can enjoy it because you always actually worrying about what’s next. And where’s the next job coming from and therefore you don’t enjoy it at all unless you get given a huge amount of cash. And weird fun fact you worked in a servo you said I can’t really do weird fun facts because you are a weird fun fact is that
Nick Gale
I think I’m a bit different than normally in the IT world to be a desk nerd. I’m a little bit extra extroverted. So ya know, it’s weird. I sit I hide it well,
Kate Toon
because I’m an introvert. I’m an introvert, but I hide it under a layer of extrovert ism.
Nick Gale
So right out there.
Kate Toon
You’re right out there. Yeah. Nick is a member of my digital masters community and frequently turns up on zooms as a lemon or a lemon on a stick driver, or a screwdriver or you are an orange. Yeah.
Nick Gale
Will you ever pick a watermelon?
Kate Toon
Yeah, don’t be a watermelon, whatever you do. I think potato might be good as well. Maybe a potato? Yeah, I like it. But I wanted to ask you on the podcast, because you know, you’re you are a man, you are a man. You have made small humans and you also run a business. So tell us a little bit about your family business setup. You know, I can see your work from home. How many children do you have? What are they doing right now? What’s the deal?
Nick Gale
So I have I have two little ones. I have Ted who’s five and olive who is to Ted started prep this year. So yeah, I work from home. I have a little dedicated office on one end of the house. And look, I do remote it and and that stuff can do repairs and things as well. But basically that’s the home unit they tend to at school and olives at daycare. Three days a week. My wife works as a physiotherapist in hospitals in Brisbane. She works Monday to Wednesday. That’s why always in daycare, then she’s home Thursday, Friday. And yeah, so Thursday, Fridays for me on the business tend to be more a bit more chill, because I can sort of go out and have a little play with a little one and come back and or I’d be sitting there in a very important meeting and you’re coming in with daddy do what did he do? So she’s met lots of my clients and they all love her. So that’s nice little
Kate Toon
- Yeah, so my job you know, it’s like having a dog you want something cute, you know? Especially if you’re you know, not saying that you’re not but you know, especially if you’re not particularly cute. It’s like, you know, wheeling well in the child and get some points you
Nick Gale
know, the road asking for peanut butter. Yeah, so cute, man. Like that.
Kate Toon
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, my son used to like come in and a little jumper say cute things hold SEO cookies. Now he’s like a teenager with fringe in his eyes. Kind of like your whatever, mom, so he’s not cute anymore. I feel like the keenness may come back when he’s older. So I like I can dig into that a little bit. Because I like the fact that you and your partner have kind of split up the week balanced out so she’s got three full days to focus on her job. And then you have your days so you kind of pretty flexible with the whole man roll woman role kind of thing.
Nick Gale
Yeah, so it’s it’s a tricky one we do walk that line. Sometimes we do have very much like should you be doing that or should I be doing that? That’s, that’s any house. But yeah, so look through the day if I’m really busy, like she knows that I may not leave my office. So yeah, look, the kitchen is probably going to look like When she left, but I haven’t been at it. So, for me, it’s like I’ve gone before their work. So and we roll that way. Someday she’s busier, I’ll do the dinners and stuff. And then some days, I’m really busy. So we try and rotate it in that way. And I can take one to school or one to daycare because obviously daycare starts earlier for all of so she takes her goes to work, and then I take Teddy later. So the beauty of this year is because we’ve got school, I’ve had Ted, for the morning, Monday to Wednesday by myself. So we’ve been able to go into a little bit of life admin, get a little breakfast chocolate milk, because I’m a bit of a trainee at heart. So I do love a pint of chocolate milk for breakfast. But he comes with me, and then we go to school. And that’s been really fun. That’s really, really good. And Thursday, Friday, my wife takes them.
Kate Toon
Yeah, so you have a couple of days to focus.
Nick Gale
And if she’s off, she’ll take them to school, but she can have both of them in the morning.
Kate Toon
Yeah, yeah. So pretty flexible. And I don’t know if you’re anything like me and my partner, but we do like to play the game that’s called I’m busier than you. And then the other one says, no, no, I’m busier than you. And we’re just kind of escalate until one of us has a bit of a mental breakdown. And the other one goes, Oh, okay, okay. I’ll take them today. It’s a fun game to play. You should try it. Wait, no, we
Nick Gale
- We do. Okay. It’s definitely still I think it’s in the instruction manual when you get Yeah, I
Kate Toon
think it is when you get married have kids? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we
Nick Gale
do that for sure. For sure. But at the same time, like, I recognize that sometimes my business of, you know, looking at that broken website, or that broken laptop, it’s not going to get any more broken. If I’m gone
Kate Toon
for half an hour. That’s the thing, isn’t it, but a perspective, I also like, and it’s often a, you know, a male to female thing, that, you know, your partner comes back, and it’s like, Hey, hang on, how come the dishes aren’t done? You’ve been here all day? And as I know, no, you haven’t, you know, and this is something I talk about in the book, because that like that time between dropping the kid off and picking them up is sacred. And if you’d fannying around doing the dishes, or putting washing on or vacuuming, even if you just think it’s only 20 minutes, it’s not, because then you have to come back to work and to get back into the mindset again, and then the tumble dryer goes off and you’re like, wow. So do you have quite a clean line of like, No, I’m working. You said before, like, it’s like I’ve gone to the office. I think that’s quite important.
Nick Gale
For me, I have I sort of set those boundaries as I sort of go along my, my schedule doesn’t fit in with most other small business because I do so much bearing work. So I’ll do anything from cabling house, to just fixing website. So it sort of depends on the week, really. So we live in that mode. But yeah, I definitely have days where I’m like, I tell my partner before she leaves. I said, Hey, look, I’m going to be busy today. Yeah. And she’s we’ve got a shared calendar. Now we’ve implemented that.
Kate Toon
That’s a great idea. I love it. I know I tried to get my partner to do it. And he just would not do it. But it really helps live it sounds like you to communicate super well. Do you think, you know, we talk about in the book, the different kinds of parenting styles that you have. And I think no one really knows what their parenting style is. They have great intentions. Then you have a child. Do you feel like you know what your parenting style is? Can you put it in a box? Can you name it
Nick Gale
vastly differently now parenting styles. Yeah. I am I’m sort of the more firm strict one. I have the booming voice. So therefore,
Kate Toon
can you just boom for me for a minute? So say baba ghanoush Baba go newish. Oh, my God, it’s like James L. Jones. And
Nick Gale
recently Yeah, I have a face for radio. You’re all welcome. So I tend to be unlike I don’t have the, I always say I don’t have the emotional equipment that my wife does to deal with. And so we’ve got a little boy and a little girl. So the little boy is nothing like me. Absolutely nothing. He’s nothing like me. So he’s very in tune with his emotions much more than me. So I have to, I’ve got to learn. Like what his deal is. She’s in tune with him. She gets in it. Yeah. Olive is she still only two? So she’s still doing the old caveman anger. bungah thing. But I’m good with that. I can work with that. Yeah, it’s
Kate Toon
straightforward. Yeah, I
Nick Gale
have a bit more luck with her. And that could be her personality. We, you know, we’re still finding out these things. But she’s she’s not backwards in coming forward. So she’s an independent little thing. And so I’ve got to monitor that aspect of my parenting style, and we have to switch it. And my wife is the opposite. So olives, right? And my wife is like, why are you like this? I’m like, Cool.
Kate Toon
Yeah, it’s good that you’ve got the yin and the yang and the Yang and I think, you know, one thing we’re in the book we talk with Jody Thornton about, you know what to do when those parenting styles aren’t the same and you You know, is that problematic? And it’s like, it’s not really because, you know, I think there’s an idea that you should have similar values and similar goals at least. But how you get there is a completely different journey, you both want the best for your kids, you want to feel loved and happy. But the way you do that, and your wife is is quite different, it took me a long time to accept, accept that because I kind of wanted my partner to do what I did, or do what I told him to do. And what big part for me of letting because you know, wanting to spend time with my business, but knowing that my partner was looking at my after my son in the in the lounge room and kind of looking and going, why is he feeding him crisps? You know? That’s a bad example, because I would have done that. But you know, knowing it doesn’t, he loves him, he’s caring for him. He’s safe, he’s fed. That’s it, you know, the fact that he may not be doing this with him, it doesn’t matter. And I think you have to have a bit of that letting go, don’t you? Because otherwise, you could never concentrate on your business at all, wherever. Yes,
Nick Gale
for me changing from being a full time. So I was a full time Telstra technician for four years. And I wasn’t home for one of the milestones and things, my, my boy, but then everything changed. I now work for myself. So I’ve seen a lot more with all in. Yeah, it’s been interesting for my wife to adjust to. Even though I’m home, I’m not technically home. Yeah. So obviously, if there’s blood curdling screams and yelling, it’s like, right, let me I see
Kate Toon
how blood curdling? Are they on a scale of one to 10
Nick Gale
genuine? Or is it just all want to eat her yogurt? Like,
Kate Toon
I scream when I’m forced to eat yogurt, so I totally get on. So what do you think has been one of the biggest I mean, what a shift I love that there’s been this shift, you know, you weren’t out of home dad feel for most of your like sons early years, and now you’ve shifted over. You know, and you’re trying to run a business from home, which is has its own delightful challenges, what have been some of the biggest challenges for you of kind of marrying the two.
Nick Gale
Making a space and understanding when to finish, I think is the biggest thing. So the joke is I got sick of working the nine to five grind. So I worked for myself, and now I work 24/7. So, yeah, look, I still have trouble with that. When it gets to four o’clock, like, it’s not off, I have to say it’s time to end I have to shut down everything. Sometimes there’s jobs that pop in or someone rings me with an urgent issue, that’s part of it. But being able to log off and log on as well. So wanting to leave them because it’s really comfortable to sit on the couch and watch dyno trucks in the morning and, you know, enjoy that aspect. But then there’s also in the back of your head, are you fully present when you’re down that into the hands? And that’s something that did actually come to a bit of a head with myself and my wife, we’ve had that discussion of like, are you here all the time, while you’re down there all the time. And it sort of became apparent that I wasn’t, I was actually, you know, melding the two together. So that’s been a hard thing for me to do is just split that time between one end of the house and when I am down the other end. And I mean, having your own space helps immensely. So that’s gonna get done. You’ve seen the wall in my office. So yeah.
Kate Toon
I think I think you’ve put me hit, like, the biggest nail on the head, I think, you know, there is no melding, it’s about being on or off. And once you’ve managed to achieve that, then you realize that Yeah, you can’t have both just can’t have both at the same time. And that’s where we fall down when we’re trying to like, yeah, okay, darling, you play with Lego for two minutes, I’m just gonna write this email that just leads to disaster, either play with the Lego or do the email. And I think, you know, what we struggle with sometimes is that we have so little time, and therefore we try and spread it out. And God just do one more hour, one more hour to try and get more and that admittance that we don’t have the time and that’s all we’ve got is I think, crucial. But you told her about space, and physical boundaries and mental boundaries. I think that’s massive as well. So, you know, as you said, clocking on time clocking off time and sticking to it. Because it’s so easy to just say I’ll be in in a minute, and then you look and it’s been 45 minutes, and you’ve been asking about Yeah, yeah, totally. But then also, you know, having your own physical space for a while I was like working on the kitchen table. And then I was working, sharing an office space with my partner, having a room that’s mine, that has all my crap in it, but also that I can shut the door on at the end of the day is so important to me. It’s a tiny little commute. It’s like three paces across the back garden avoiding dog poo, but it is my commute and it creates separation. So you mentioned that you’ve got like what I ended the house and the other end of the house is not super important, right?
Nick Gale
Yeah. And it took it took a good while for us to work that out. Yeah. So like it, you can put your you can make it work and you can you really got to have this as the business. It’s like if I was commuting, like, every morning, I used to go and get in the 20 to eight. That was it. That was that was the law. That was the rule. Yeah. And it worked from home whenever I got home, I was home. And that was it. Yeah. So try to implement that way of thinking when you’re at home plus the Playstations in my office. Oh, so like, that’s not a work thing.
Kate Toon
Yeah. But it is a mindset shift. And it’s a lot of little things, little things that I do, like I, you know, I spent a long time enjoying the fact that I didn’t have to get dressed up, and just did nothing and look like an actual bog monster every day. And then I realized that that wasn’t great for my self esteem. And I actually liked putting on an outfit and, you know, going to my office, maybe maybe brushing my hair, you know, I know, that’s a big, big thing for you as well. Your beard is lush and beautiful. These days as well, like I bring out snacks to my office, like a lunch and something to eat and fluids. So that really all I have to go inside for is wheeze. And I’ve developed a bladder of an oxen. So you know, I can hold in ways for about six or seven years. It’s amazing. So you probably shouldn’t
Nick Gale
know,
Kate Toon
I know, I don’t think it’s good for me, we’ll find that out. You know, it’ll be like, you know, podcaster expires from over full bladder. But I think the thing is, it’s like limiting the number of times that you says reduce the number of contacts you have in your family in a day because it’s so easy to get drawn in. Yeah, it is the you know, you go in to have a Wii and your two year olds and Daddy, can you just, and you feel like an awful human going, No, I can’t get off me. Get your hands off me. You know, so
Nick Gale
Gremlin, Toad on my legs. You want to
Kate Toon
limit the number of times that you feel crap in any given day? Right? How do you cope with the dad guilt? You know, when you can hear them clawing at the door?
Nick Gale
Yeah. So that it’s interesting. So I know a lot of it’s interesting between a man and a woman with that, because she’s a stay at home mom, when we have the babies and like the dad is relatively useless for the first three or four months like yeah, there’s nothing that I can I could do, I think, useless nipples. Absolutely, absolutely useless. So I had pretty strong dad deal with the first fella. And because it’s the first and and I was in no way as bad, like some of the other blokes I know, they’re FIFO. So they don’t see them for weeks at a time. So dealing with that was was a challenge for me. And now that you know, working from home was good, I can see a little bit more. It’s sort of brought that back a little bit, in that I did miss a lot of stuff. But was I more present when I was with him when I wasn’t at home. And that’s something that’s also coming up with us in a little one now is that you’re here but you’re not present. Whereas before, I wasn’t there through the day, but when I came home, I was present. So that again that line of when you start and when you finish, big deal. Big deal. Yeah, the dad guilt is definitely like, I just want to sit there and play and
Kate Toon
yeah, it’s tough everyone, I think, but I think it’s often referred to as mum guilt. And I think that’s, you know, it’s not fair. Really, I love what you mentioned there about being present. You know, kids want presents, not presents is the line, I think, you know, time is a funny one, because we don’t ever have enough of it. And you know, people talk about quality time, which I don’t think exists. You know, I think you can have a great time with your kid just wandering around coals talking about crap. You know, I think that can be a really great child parent, adventure. You know, it doesn’t have to all be like trips to the zoo. But with the time that you have, as you said, it’s about being there and being not being present is a funny word is it’s like enjoying it. Like if you’re really hating every minute of it, kids pick up on that, you know, if you they know that you’d rather be doing something else and your eye keeps on edging towards your phone and it’s like, you better off just go in and do the thing. And coming back. It’s a hard one, isn’t it? The little
Nick Gale
the little things just make a huge difference. And like, you’re right, you know, like that that time and they’re only little for so long.
Kate Toon
I know. And there is that guilt now that I kind of look back and go I went could I have done more? I think we’ll all feel like that. I don’t think any parent ever goes yeah, I did enough. I was great. List. Yeah. Yeah. Even any, you know, the ones that are able to spend more time with their kids then you know, they get to a point where they’re like, did I do enough for myself? Like you know, my kids are grown up and what have I got for me? So it’s whenever bloody happy stupid humans that we are.
Nick Gale
That was the thing that real thing with with my wife was that, you know, she’d spent a lot of time with the baby and then she’s down to three days but her workplace is interesting in that there was a lot of opportunities Is that gone? Because she only worked three days? Yeah. And that’s a bureaucratic whole other thing that really drives me nuts. But and it’s also the management where you work. Yeah. But yeah, there was limiting sides of that as well. And I think I think a lot of guys actually recognize it. But there’s nothing that people that out at my level could ever do about it. But it comes from above. And that’s where a lot of the bigger businesses that have employees, they probably need to look into that a little bit more. Yeah, toes. The DMC members like they’re, they’ve gone out on their own because they’re sick of conforming to that. That’s not how it works. That’s not real life, you know?
Kate Toon
Exactly. I think, you know, we’ve got lots of blokes and we’ve got lots of mums and dads in the DMC and non parents too. But you know, a lot of them it is that lifestyle choice. It’s ironic, though, because we make this choice to work from home, because of all the advantages. And then we sit there hating the fact that we are working at home, and we forget our why, right? You know, I want to work at home so I can spend more time with my kids. Why is my kid continuing wanting to spend time with me, it’s really, really hard. Because with our own small business, it will eat, suck the marrow from your bone, you can give it everything, and it will still take more the time, your energy. And you know, if you’re not able to set boundaries, you will totally massively burn out. So that brings me to the next topic. And I you know, I’m interested in your opinion on this, because, you know, managing your time. So you’ve got your cut off, and you’re trying to stick to that. But during the day, how do you make your day productive? How do you make sure that you get stuff done? And you’re not just sitting there on the PlayStation?
Nick Gale
Oh, I am. I’m terrible. Terrible. So full disclosure, I do I have been diagnosed with adult ADHD. So that was an interesting superpower that I unlocked. So look, I can’t multitask at all.
Kate Toon
No one can Nick. It’s a lie. It’s a lie. It’s clearly a lie.
Nick Gale
But I can tasks which so for me, I have I use Trello. But that’s as far as I can go. I cannot plan things. I cannot use those apps that time down and then flick it to the next thing. I can’t do it. I just can’t my did. I stresses you out. Yeah. So I tasks which a lot. And I also just marketing as I’m doing them. So if I’ve done something, I mark it with a color. So I was like, is it yellow and my wedding on them to learn if they’re waiting on me. And then I can just get a quick look, get a snapshot in my head. And for me that works, picture of where I’m at. And I can tell you right now the four purple things that are sitting on my Trello without even looking at them.
Kate Toon
So color color works really well, doesn’t it? I use color in my Google Calendar. You know, for like priority things are not priority. I think there’s a visual stimulus there. But also the physical act of marking something down. So I’m not a big fan of online to do lists, because I really like the physicality of swiping something is done, you know.
Nick Gale
So I’ve kept a Trello list at the end. Yeah. And when they’re green, I put them there. Because at the end of the day, and you’ll know this, yeah. You’ve been sitting in here for six or seven hours. What have I done? Yeah, what have I done? And then you’ve actually got a marker, you’ve done five things, and they’re all important. You will? Okay, I have actually achieved something but you don’t remember? Yeah, you.
Kate Toon
I can barely remember who I was this morning, let alone what I’ve done. So you know, I will retrospectively go in and add like, Oh, I did call Bob. And then I did this and I send that email, even though it feels like it takes few seconds. Because otherwise at the end of every day, I get to the point and I’m like, not just what have I done. But then that leads to the next question of I’m unproductive. And I’m never getting anything done. And I took all that time away from my family to achieve f all. And so it’s really important to look at that. And, you know, you don’t see the achievements over a day or a week. It’s over months, you know, and unless you’ve got that list, it’s really, really hard. Okay, I love that and a DHD thing, I think, you know, more and more people are finding out that that is their thing. And, you know, we had a previous guest on Sam Jockle who’s saying she can be hyper focused as well. And that can be negative because he goes like, oh on. Yeah, like too far the other way, you know? And do you find yourself doing that as well? Yeah,
Nick Gale
I started from the end because of my history and doing like it desperate stuff. I just start to navigate through rabbit hole. I’m just in there. Like, from the Matrix.
Kate Toon
I can imagine you’re just coding like this.
Nick Gale
When I start I grew up a longer neck beard do Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, get that joke. But yeah, and I’m time blind. I suffered time blindness. Usually I’m like, this will take me 10 minutes. Two hours later, okay, I’ve completed that. Oh, it’s four o’clock.
Kate Toon
Yeah. Like it’s the Parkinson’s Law isn’t at the time the task expands to fit whatever time you give it and vary into time based to do lists. So I do not put something on my to do list than this. I’ve specified a time and Obviously, I’m not so disciplined that I always hit that. But if I get myself, I know it, you should try it even for like, I can’t do it every day because that would just make me feel really hemmed in and an awful, but you know, some days when I really need to smash it I’m like, I’m only gonna give this 20 minutes and that 10 minutes and that half an hour. And if I’m not done by then I’m moving on to the next thing actually,
Nick Gale
I think I do that with my finance stuff. Yeah, I despise logging into Xero it’s great. It’s a fantastic get on it like, yeah, actually. But I also hate it. Because it’s like, here’s some boring stuff to do. Yes, money that most of it goes somewhere you can’t have fun with. So that is
Kate Toon
such a beautiful segue into my next question. Let’s talk about money. Money makes people get itchy. Money brings up lots of mindset issues. And the problem as a small business owner is is you’re fully responsible for your money, you know, and I love. It’s a double edged sword, isn’t it because when you’re like a wage slave, you got to suck up to Bob to get away wage rise. But when you’re a small business owner, really you can earn, you can earn what you want. You can earn the six figures in school hours, whatever that means to you, whether that’s revenue, whether it’s take home pay, but I think people underestimate the sacrifices to do that. How do you manage your money? Do you are you so use zero which is one thing do you forecast? Do you budget? Do you have a plan for the year
Nick Gale
forecasting is hard? I don’t. I can’t in my business. I can’t work that out. I know what Oh, ad hoc. Yeah, it’s like I have a week. I’m like, I’ve got nothing. And then all of a sudden Wednesday. I’m just full. Yeah. And then I’m good for two weeks. I don’t need to necessarily do anything. It’s very annoying. So I’m, I’m profit first. Yeah, first and foremost. So just even on the tax side of things, forget profit, forget, operating can’t forget all that. But just having that, that tax. Yeah. Because I went to my accountant who’s a good friend of mine. And he was like, Oh, you’ve got it this way, this old way of thinking. And then like, showed him that. And then he said, Well, we’re going to do your best in however long when in the end, he said, so your bill is this? I said, Cool. Let’s pay it.
Kate Toon
And that’s the best feeling in the world. He’s like, Oh, you’ve
Nick Gale
got you’ve got you’ve done. You’ve got that money. I said, Yeah. Yeah. I don’t have to worry about it. So again, like probably a lot of people listening to this will be aware of that. But the tax straight off the bat. I’m also taking out more because of some of the degrees. I’ve done some study as well. I always pay a little bit more, because the tax man, I’ll give it back at interest free. Yeah, yes, ways. But it’s like a little savings account where you’re sorry, you’ve given us too much have some back that can go into the next one, because there will be a time when you miss it. But managing the money, it’s been really slow. So Christmas, the cost of living, all that stuff goes up. So people for me in my business, they’re going to just deal with the slow laptop, the slow PC, rather than spend 200 bucks to get the guy to fix it, do what they got to do. So I’ve seen a bit of a downturn in that sort of work. But there’s also been business grants that have led people with businesses actually get their stuff in line. Yeah. And that’s in day to day life. For me, that’s what is going to be where I probably end up going. Because of my history with all the businesses I’ve been in, I can help them. And I can get some subscriptions. And I can get this sort of maintenance contracts and these sort of things going and I can support them. And I think if you talk to me in a year, it’d be I’ve got forecasts, you know, I can do?
Kate Toon
Yeah, but I think you’re already doing I mean, I think the thing is, no matter what business you have, whether it’s a big business or small businesses always feast and famine, there are good months and bad months. And what I like about Profit First is it irons that out because it just takes you know, you’re saving 25 cents on every dollar for the taxman regardless of whether it’s a good week or a bad week, and sometimes you’ll win and sometimes you’ll lose, I didn’t ever give it to the taxman, I put it in an offset account. I thought that was a bit because I was a sole trader, it’s my money, I can put it where I want. But yeah, that is still you’re just trying to iron out the peaks and troughs, we’ll never get rid of them completely. And to think that we will is foolish, you know, small business small, Trump’s Big Business Big Trump’s. So I think that that, you know, that is forecasting to the Greeks. It’s saying, Whatever I do, I’m gonna save my tax. I think the Profit First thing is, was so good for me, even if you just start with the 1% because I just felt like I was working really, really hard not getting anywhere, like where’s my money going? And obviously, the majority of it is going to support my lifestyle. And that’s impossible to see because I just spend it all at Woolies and Kohl’s. But that 1% I could just see that building up and that 1% gave me choices. It gave me freedom. It enabled me to turn down clients, it enabled me to go I don’t need to take this crappy rude client on because I’ve got a little bit of a buffer there. Uh, you know, Oh yes, I can go to my school’s my son’s splash a THON, because I’m doing all right. And the moment I got that little buffer, and that’s what the whole Why was right to have enough time to be able to spend time with him not to make masses and masses of money. That was never my goal. I think it’s possible. But the consequences and the compromises and the exchange, I feel like most of us aren’t really willing to do what it takes. Because it takes us as well.
Nick Gale
Yeah, it’s, it’s you’ve got to really decide where your time needs to look like I could go, I could go out and grab every business
Kate Toon
and do you could be working 6070 hours a week. But yeah,
Nick Gale
what? What cost at what cost? And that’s not again, why we get into it, you know, exactly. We do it for the love
Kate Toon
we do for the love we do for the love of our family. But I think examining that why and coming back to it regularly stops you comparing yourself to, you know, Josh, she’s 27 and entrepreneur and gets up at five and earns 6k in a minute. You know, because that’s Josh, good for Josh. We’ve all had our Josh periods. And now we’re not in the period of Josh anymore.
Nick Gale
The other thing that’s interesting about you saying that is that we’ve got in my line, so I’m a comms tech. So I don’t do electrical stuff, but I can run with them and work that I find myself comparing why my business and we’re and I need sort of two or three years into this. I’m comparing myself with the electrician or the plumber, that’s been doing it for 20 years. And I’m like, why am I getting the stuff? They’ve got? They’ve got three weeks, but they’ve got three guys working for him. How come? They’ve been doing it longer than you. And they started out where you are. So yeah, I think it’s important for starters, to just go walk your own, like, take, take the advice be the sponge, but at the same time, you’ve got to walk where you need to walk
Kate Toon
and have a bit of patience. You know, like, again, if you’ve started this business, when you were 24, with no commitments, obviously, you’re gonna get from A to B a lot faster than now when you’ve really only got two full days a week to work. And the other days, you’re kind of trying to be a dad as well. It’s not going to happen overnight. I think. Patience, is that one of the biggest problems that people you can have it all, but just not today. You just got to spread that little. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you sound like you and your partner have learned some really good communication strategies. And I think that’s a lot of people struggle with that. You know, any any advice on that? Like, for other parents?
Nick Gale
It’s far from perfect.
Kate Toon
Yeah. Never is but you know,
Nick Gale
no, it’s actually perfectly brochure. Everything that is correct. Sign up tomorrow, don’t do that. Please don’t. It’s evolving. You’ve got to talk, you’ve got to say, you’ve got to be honest, like, as a man. Admit, and I read this recently, and it was something that I was doing, admit when you’re not busy. Admit when you’ve got, don’t play busy. Tell them. I’m, I’m not busy. I’m not busy. I’m worried, I need something. So because that’s, you know, trouble. The problem shared is a problem halved or whatever it is. So then, when they see you not in the office, and outside digging a hole for a post, they’re not then saying, Well, there’s no money coming in. Why are you out digging a hole? You should be in there making money. Because that’s what your space becomes to them? Is that where the money?
Kate Toon:
If you’re not glued to your desk, you’re not making money.
Nick Gale:
You’re not there. Exactly. So don’t be busy. If you’re not, like admit it, and then work on what you can do. To make yourself busy. Get out there. So for me, I went out and just had a chat to one of the daycares because they’d been having phone issues, right. And I just said, Here’s my card. I’ve got ideas. And yeah, look, it’s not gonna make me money right now, but I’ve done something and then go and do something that makes you happy. Because otherwise you’re just gonna sit there and idle mind is the devil’s playground. Yeah, so you need to go and do that thing. You need
Kate Toon
to dig a hole. You know, I love to call. But the other thing about admitting you’re busy that I love is the flip side of it is if you admit you’re not busy, and you go you know what today I don’t have much on and you know, I’ve done all I can to drum up work, but it’s not going to come in today. So how about today I take a bit more of the load. And that kind of being honest about that means later on when you go you know what I am smashed and I know I said I would be involved with this today, but I can’t. You’ve kind of both building up parent points, you know and exchanging them. So that honestly goes both ways. Because there’s a tendency to go I’m always busy. No, I’m busy just so that no one disturbs you and bothers you and you Your time is kept precious This is no time. But having a bit of give and take with that means that you know, when you are struggling, we’ve got too much on that you’re gonna get that love back again, because there’ll be remember that time you took them to daycare or that time you made dinner? It’s all an exchange, isn’t it?
Nick Gale
Absolutely. So give and take. Yeah. And you know, it is just it’s a dynamic thing. You’ve got to roll with it. There’s no rules, kids don’t care. No rules. can’t work with them.
Kate Toon
And I said at the beginning, you know, we’ve made my parties to pay the busy game, we also love to play the tire the game who was more tired. And it really we tried to outdo each other. And if all of us had ever admitted that we actually weren’t that tired today, and we were fine would have been like what, but we don’t do what we did. So, you know, you said that, you know, one of the ways that you kind of soothe yourself is to dig holes. What What does self What does self care look like for Nick Gale?
Nick Gale
It is. Yeah, look, it’s just probably better gaming. Getting out in the yard. Getting the gaming. Yeah. Just letting the mind wander free. Most guys that we will will never admit it openly to the mowing of the lawn. Is that since then? Yeah, it is just you and you’ve got nothing. It’s just you just walk in a line with a very noisy thing that makes chopping noises. And smells like a picture. Yeah. So there’s that I’ve got a I’ve got a bit of a toy car in the shed, which I like to go and look at. Don’t drive it because I can’t bring myself to get the insurance fixed yet. But it’s just the shed having that space where you can go and do stuff. I really like doing stuff in the yard. Like I’m building a mud kitchen for my kids right now. Oh, lovely. that I found on the side of the road. Oh, I love that. That for me is ZAN. And yeah, look, I’ll swear and carry on when stuff on straight. And you know,
Kate Toon
that’s all part of the fun in it. That’s why I do
Nick Gale
- Because it’s fun. And for me like having that little posted in the top of the top of the screen that just says for them. Oh, that’s nice. So I had a job last week. No, I was stuck. It was in the roof. And it was like 42 degrees here. And it was just hot. And it was not comfortable. It’s not always a glamorous job. But getting hot and bothered and I didn’t want to be there. The drill starts giving out I mean roof that Why are you in here and it’s like for them. That’s why you there? Because when you get this sorted, you can be home. So that’s sorted. Yeah, so that’s, that’s what I did. I got there for them. I didn’t do the picture. But I did this event.
Kate Toon
I really really really liked that I’m the same you know, I’m self care for me isn’t so much like we were facials and things like that, although don’t get me wrong, I love them. I do love a job. I do love a job. But that’s my brain slipped sideways or completely absorbed myself in something quite physical. Because our jobs are quite mental. You know, intellectual I’d say I love mowing and lawn. It’s also
Nick Gale
a mental is also good.
Kate Toon
For you know, something practical is a nice flip over, you know, he talks about task switching. It’s a good cleanser. For me, I love a lot of practical gardening stuff. Mowing lawns, I love sweeping I love. There’s also the sense of achievement as well, that dopamine of something and I did it you know, we need that dose of neuro chemicals to get us going. And, you know, you talked about the poster thing, the poster is kind of I was gonna ask you, what’s your biggest driver? But I think it’s the post that really isn’t it? Yeah,
Nick Gale
like I can, I can go get a job and look, based on current forecasting, like it’s going to be, it’s going to be tight. So I may need to go and get that part time job to help sustain. But I do that for them. So and that’s that’s a, that might be a male oriented thinking as well. Like, I’ve always been that provider up until I started for myself. I’ve always had relatively high paying jobs for the age and where I was right. So I’ve been very lucky. So now that I’m not that that’s been a big mental block for me to go. I’ve got to try it. But for me, it’s just you can say I need to pay off the bills, and I need to do that. And that’s a shitty reason. Like, it really is like, we all know, that’s what we’re all doing. It’s all about the take home pay, but you’re doing it for them. Because they deserve it. And you want to do that for me. So even if it’s just being able to walk them down the back of the tree and a bush block, walking down in the bush in their gumboots at two o’clock on a Friday afternoon, was just like that’s it. That’s perfect. I didn’t do the job in the morning in the roof, and that was for them. So I’ve made not much money today. But I’ve made enough that we can buy groceries and I can walk them again the bush in the gumboots. So that’s a good driver, I don’t, don’t put the bills in front, the bills will always be there, like the work will always be there, but make it about them. And you’ll find that other stuff tends to just go all into play. So I’m a big softy,
Kate Toon
you are a big softy. No, but I love it. And you know, my vibe is for a little while I did get focused on the money and the pain things up and try and achieve security that is very soulless that you hit the financial goal and because it’s not attached to anything, that means anything it doesn’t it doesn’t hit home, it doesn’t feel the way you think it will feel. You know, but being able to, as you said, whether it’s time or you know, providing a nice home or whatever it is, you know, being able to buy groceries, you know, I’ve gone from like, having to check every item on the bill to see if I have to put it back to being able to go to for me. So this is really you’ve got your post it note and your gumboots for me, the sheer relief of being able to call go to Kohl’s or Aldi, and buy what I need to buy, considering how expensive groceries are at the moment. Without that without having to panic. That for me is a huge achievement. And I think for a lot a lot of time even if you do get successful it’s about staying humble and remembering those feelings because we came from exactly because what the goalposts are always gonna move we’re human. It’s the human condition to push for more to strive. If we weren’t that kind of person, we would never do anything. We’d still be that little wiggly fish thing that they hadn’t crawled out of the pond, you know. So, yeah, I’m babbling now. I love that the post it note in the gumboots and that’s beautiful. It’s important to be a big softy Nick, I think. I think that’s Bob, you know, you. Thanks a week. I love it. Grant Yeah. So barbecue chicken in that spanner. shiftings. Barbra ganache. Barber. Good news. Nick, it has been amazing to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can we find out more about your business?
Nick Gale
So my business has a lovely web page. Will I need to work because fixing everyone else’s? Let’s be honest. Plumber always has a leaky toilet and my website is next digital.com You can search me on Facebook as well. Just Nick’s digital. Yeah, little orange triangle. Keep an eye out for it. There’s not a lot I can’t fix.
Kate Toon
Fantastic. Yeah. So if you need any help with anything, techie techie fix fix. Nick is your man. He’s a member of digital masters so you can find him I’ve included links to his Facebook and his website in the show notes. Nick, thank you for sharing so beautifully today. I really enjoyed talking to you, and I’ll see you soon. Thanks. Bye bye
